Ep 28 Tenma - The Artivist

Join us on Stage Matters as we sit down with Tenma—composer, bass player, and the driving force behind Chennai's most vital musical movements.

From his beginnings in a Pursavakkam church choir, soaking up jazz and the sounds of Anglo-Indian string players who worked with Ilaiyaraaja, Tenma’s journey is a powerful exploration of music as both an art form and a political act.

In this deep-dive conversation, Tenma shares:

• The Bass Awakening: How picking up a Yamaha bass for a school farewell, after years of singing, defined his path, and the moment a complex funeral performance revealed the true depth of music.
• The Cultural Vacuum: His frustration with the decline of Chennai's original music scene and the hyper-competitive, yet creatively limiting, college rock circuit.
• The Inseparability of Politics and Performance: Why the performance space in Chennai is still structurally exclusionary and how the fundamental problems of caste and gatekeeping stifle creative evolution and growth.
• The Militant Maestro: An exclusive look at the intense dynamics of running the 19-person Casteless Collective—a band that merged rock, rap, and Gaana music. Hear about the unconventional methods, including fines for "bum notes," he used to mentor diverse musicians and elevate their performance to a near-flawless level.

This episode is a must-listen for anyone interested in the intersection of music, culture, and social change. Tenma doesn't just talk about music; he talks about building a movement.

Tune in for a raw and insightful discussion on escaping the aesthetic status quo and finding the collective groove.

Transcript

Hello Tenma, welcome to Stage Matters, thank you. Hi, thank you, thank you for having me here. So how did this whole thing begin for you? Can you take me through your early years of getting on stage and even your influences and what did you see? So I think I come from some, I would say a choir, church choir family. 

So when there was music in my house, but they were not technically musicians. They are not choir as in like they were divided like that. It was a church choir, regular church choir. 

But there were some musicians, some guitar players and our family was closely associated. I mean we were, I grew up in Purshavakkam. So there were a lot of Anglo-Indian musicians and Tamil musicians who are also got. 

So are you connected with Jim's family in any way? No, no, I am probably like the Davids, you know, Randy, Judy, these are score writers. No, no, no. But John Sathya used to live near our house at one point. 

Okay. I did take some classes from him when I was my early, when I was 19 or something. Okay. 

But we were in one, you know, Judy, Randy, Rossner, George David, like David family. Okay. They were playing strings for the string musicians for Raja. 

Oh, okay. So they used to play in our church. Okay. 

And apart from that, we had a big load of Anglo-Indian, great Anglo-Indian musicians. And I think the church was also filled with some sort of a good band. You know, like there weren't drums. 

I mean, very rarely we'll have drums, but usually it'd be the beats from the PSR. Okay. And the keyboard, definitely guitars were there. 

Okay. Amp distortion. And there were always a bass player. 

Okay. Some bass player used to exist. And that one, and because there were a lot of Anglo- Indian women also, I was part of the youth group. 

So we used to go to Shiraz for that Anglo-Indian bash for Christmas and everything. Okay. So that's when like Johnson, a bass player, Johnson used to play. 

Pretty good. His daughter was a friend of ours. I mean, she was also part of the youth group. Okay. So, I mean, I was sort of in that environment. Okay. 

And I used to sing very early on with family as it is. But I would say, I wanted to play an instrument, but we couldn't afford it. My sister wanted to learn, so we couldn't afford it at that time. 

We come from a little bit of a family without any means. So I decided, okay, let me, I mean, at one point I was, I saw this musician, music director, who is now a music director, this musician. He was talking about chords and what was chords that time. 

But I was like, first time hearing all the G minor, A minor, all of those things. I was like, what are those? So I was very fascinated by that. And there was a guy, his name was Fenn. 

I changed his name now to whatever, okay. There was another guy called Ashley. So both of them used to play. 

And we were part of the scouts thing. So I used to get fascinated by that. And I said, okay, I want to learn. 

I told my mom, but at that point we got a little bit, money became a little bit better. My sister took me to, found some music classes in Purusharkam. And for some weird reason, I started learning classical guitar at like, I think the end of 10th standard. 

This is all after years of singing, finally, like classical guitar. And then after that, I started, I was playing classical, I was reading music and all those things. And we, I had a really good friend who was no more, but like, he got the, you know, this school farewell and all the 11th standard boys have to play the 12th standard. 

So I started in Don Bosco, we had all those things. He called me to play for the band. But he said, do you want to sing? Because he knows me from when I was a kid. 

He's like, do you want to sing? Or do you want to play bass? You won't believe it. I didn't actually know at that point what the bass was, the job of a bass was. For me, it was like, okay, some guitar. 

He's like, bass guitar. Hey, do you want to play bass guitar? I was like, yeah, okay, cool. And I practised the entire thing on acoustic guitar. 

And the first time I, it was a D'Mello's white Yamaha bass. Obviously, he would have gone through that Yamaha bass. So that Yamaha bass, and when I got it, everything was huge compared to an acoustic guitar. 

And I had another bass player friend. He showed me, this is how you slide. After I knew how to slide, I was like, okay, the sliding, this just playing one note and just grooving. 

Suddenly got my thing going after the farewell, and I said, okay, fine, let's do this. And things started from there. It was actually, music became an escapism. 

I started enjoying playing with these sort of musicians. It was a good place. So that's where it all, the youth group, the school, that's where all of these things started. 

So how has your understanding of performance and the act of performing evolved from then on to now? You have been leading big bands. I guess, performance from before till now, I think the culture has become deteriorated of performance now. But I guess I was around very good musicians. 

In fact, there was one funeral which I was playing for. I was playing with the Davids. This was like one year into playing bass. 

One year into playing bass, and it was my grandmom's funeral. Everything was very complicated. Because they were never, it was never just the root, or just following the chords. 

It was harmonically separated so much. So when I realised, that was the day I realised, okay, this game is something else. It was not just me trying to be all grooving and sliding. 

The game was something else. And that was a turning point. And also, I think, in between that, the college also started. 

I guess, year and a half later, college started, and I got back with a bunch of friends. I mean, not got back, one friend who was off-row, my school friend. He was not in Don Bosco that time, he was in Union Christian for like 9th or 12th. 

So I'm meeting him after years, and we're getting into this band situation. And they were all, they all come from a little bit of, he comes from a musician family. And I could see the way they were reacting, responding to music, and everything was very different. 

So I thought, okay, I think I need to do a little better. And what I realised was, it was also, I was soaked in so much jazz and classical music. At very, like 16, 17. 

I didn't know rock music. And my family, it was either jazz, Dave Brubeck, and Dizzy Gillespie type thing, which I knew only Dave Brubeck. That was every weekend we used to jam with the band, when I was 16, 17. 

And we were jamming, the culture was totally different. And when I got to college, it was all like rock music, and like funk. And my guitarist at that time, Nipun, also was, he was quite, like very early on, he used to play really fast. 

So I was, I was a little mesmerised by all of those things, and them knowing all of these things. And after we played on stage, that's when I realised, okay, the performance is a different game. I saw the whole, like performance changing with playing with the really senior musicians, who are like at least 45, 50 years older than me. 

And then I'm seeing with my peers. And I wanted to be somewhere in between, because they were very strict. There's that proverb, you know, like, a child among men will soon be a man, 

that sort of a thing. 

Because working with senior musicians very early on, it's a totally different game. With this, there was more fun. There was also, you know, like, you know, it's like, teenage, and the rock scene, too much alcohol, drugs, women, all of those things were like, that sort of life was, was, was the environment which was, I was getting introduced to. 

And I could see a little bit of like, okay, we need to think of this in a very different way. And we started winning some competitions. And that's when I got exposed to other bands. 

And at that point, I saw another bass player called Venkat Subramaniam, who plays bass for Sanam. Okay. So he's been a friend from that period of time. 

I think we were friends for like, yeah, same 17, 18. I've known him now, almost like 38. And his influence, he sort of like gave me a lot of music influence and everything. 

And I could see, like, because of playing for lots of these competitions, at that time in college, like NLS, and Deepwoods, and all those things, and you see all of these bands, they were really good. And at that time, in that one to two years, I was exposed to, in college was exposed to, like, Chennai was known for great bass players, right from Carl, Keith, and everybody. There was an abundance of bass players. 

There was Kitta, Jitesh, and like, there's a lot of great bass players and different styles. There's even a metal, great metal bass player called Muneeb. So, and who had a unique sound to themselves. 

And there were a lot of great guitarists and everything. And it was a very healthy, but also slightly toxic, but healthy system where everybody was competing with each other. So performance-wise, everybody had to get better before the next Unwind gig. 

So there was, there's a, like, too much, like, male testosterone-driven competitive scene. And because there was betrayal also, like, Deepwood play for my bands, they'll just quit and go to the next band. And then they'll be like, oh, no, that guy sucks, this guy sucks, you're a bad bass player, you don't know how to slap. 

All of that sort of very toxic environment, you know, in retrospect to think about it. But it was the, it was the ground in which I sort of grew up. And so, and then after that, going through all of these years of, like, playing with so many bands, working and like, I mean, I had a good experience in London, like, playing with, playing and working with a lot of people. 

I was studying there. I was also, like, working. You went to study music? Music production, sound engineering. 

And then that environment sort of got me into a different state of mind. Okay. And I think at that point, I realised what sort of musician I wanted to be. 

And after that, I mean, after that, for some reason, I mean, not some reason, I, very early on, I wanted to be a composer and a music producer, composer. So, but just that bass playing was just the instrument of composition, I would say. But I was getting influenced by people like Sly Stone, Prince, David Bowie. 

So you're a very funk based. No, actually, I, yeah, definitely funk is part of the, part of the repertoire. But the ideas in which they were, like, I was getting influenced by the way they talk. 

The political nature. Political nature. And it influenced from where I came from. 

So it was, I mean, Larry Graham's tutorial video, right? You must have seen it. Must have seen, yeah. That actually has a lot of politics. 

Yeah. It's too subliminal. Yeah. 

He makes the entire thing so much fun. But I was like, why am I getting, like, affected by this? Beyond this, just learning those slapping and everything. And that started contributing to what I was doing and what I was making. 

And after a point, I was becoming, I just didn't want to be in the studio. But money, studio is why we could make some sort of a living with it, you know. And it could, we could be called a serious musician or a working musician. 

Otherwise, you're not considered anything. It was all like a hobby. So at that point, I started a studio and all of those things. 

But then situations, one after the other, came in where I realised great musicians were doing other things. Started finding their own life. In what sense? I mean, I think they got, like, a job. 

Okay, that way, okay. Music and... They were doing music, but very part-time musicians. Found a... IT job, a teaching... A means of making a living. 

Means of making a living. So there were not many... I think at that point, bands were dying in Chennai. Like, one after the other, bands were dying. 

And lots of people went abroad also. And there was a period of MI being very famous, right? Musicians Institute. And suddenly, everybody just went off. 

They went to MI and just quit music. Like, learned for a year. How to pay back the loan. 

Yeah, how to pay back the loan. So... I think that... After that, I could see there was a big... There was a big depletion in, like, the culture of playing in a band. I was only thinking, like, Oh, I come from that scene. 

I was pretty... I was the bottom of the food chain there. And now it's like this. And nobody exists. 

Or they are playing for some playback singer. Which was also... Like, either a plus one track, a minus one track. And then they were playing on top of that. 

Because they had to do this whole playback cinema scene. I was not interested in cinema. But if cinema came my way, I did it. 

But I could see that there was a big vacuum. And with Kurangan, that's what I did. So... I didn't want to do it because... First of all, it's a very ego-driven environment, bands. 

I was part of very good bands, like Blind Image and Public Issue, I think. But it was still, like, a very ego-driven environment. I didn't want to do that because it was an ego-driven environment. 

And eventually, Kurangan became that ego-driven environment only. But... It was also, like... I mean, I enjoyed making that. But the thing was, what really bothered me between then and... Like, so very early on, I wanted to make Tamil music. 

But not... Very contemporary Tamil music. Not the filmy style? Not the filmy style. I wanted how... I think Jaanu, at that time, was doing something. 

You know, he was doing Tamil and metal way before Kurangan. There were other people who were doing... You know, like... But at that same time, even hip-hop, Tamil and... All of those guys started coming in. But this was not what I was... You know, that's still not... Like, that's still not, like... What we saw. 

I didn't... That's not the sly and the family stone for Tamil. That's not the earth, wind and fire of Tamil. So, what would that be? The interpretation of that would be... So, with Kurangan, I could explore a lot more. 

I could make music. I could, you know... Because... I also brought in my drummer from Blind Image. And that's when I found Saib also. 

He just got out of... Sam. So, he was fantastic. And with Kurangan, we didn't gig a lot. 

Because we... That time, town music was even more messed up. It was a dry land. Either you had to play... Film or... Film or Carnatic influenced... That sort of wedding... Staccato type things, you know. 

Which we were not doing. So, I said... Okay, fine. Let's figure this out. 

But... By the end of Kurangan, obviously... There was a lot of ego fights and everything. And we split. But the only thing was... The last at least 8 months... There was Jallikattu protest. 

There was a big vacuum in the whole... See, with Kurangan... We can't make a scene development. With one band or one person... Cannot do anything. It has to come as a collective. 

That's when we could change... We can change anything. And that's when I met C.N.R. And... I met... All these guys... Were... Coming up at that time. So, I could bring them together... To create an environment for... Us. 

For everybody to... Communicate. Because otherwise... This whole social media thing itself... Is like this creative jealousy... Will kill each other. So, that is also going on. 

And I was wondering why this... Why do I not like that person? I don't even know that person. You know, why am I... Why do I... Dislike them? And then I just... I was like, okay... That's all in my head. It's all in my stupid brain. 

I need to stop thinking that way. And reach out to them and talk. I spoke to them. 

And they all came. There was no... I mean, it was all just like... Hi, hello... That's it. Everything changed. 

So, when... We were doing that collective... What happened? You used to organise shows and stuff. So, I created this thing called Madras Indy Collective where we... I introduced the idea of busking again here. Actually, that is the same time I met Paul Jacob also. 

So, Paul played a significant influence in creating this sort of... He's been this for... 20-25 odd years for a lot of people. So, he gave me this... You know, I was also frustrated. I was posting all of this. 

There's also severe caste discrimination also. Because at the bottom of the... Like, what I realised... During that time also... How much ever you go deep down into this country, India as such... The fundamental problem of any major crisis would be caste. Which we will not address. 

Because we'll only talk about... Like, black politics, we'll talk about. Here, caste politics, we'll never open our mouth. So, then I started addressing that. 

Which... I mean, through the years, I've had severe awakening moments with Periyar and Malcolm X and Ambedkar and all. But... I was trying to idealise them, but not behaving like them. So, I think that was the time when I was trying to behave... Or like... Practised what they were practising. 

So, that's when I started posting stuff. And it was also a lot of cover bands at that time were taking over. And that was killing the original scene. 

And there was also a glorification of the cover bands. Which was irritating. Because what I thought cover bands... I mean, I still think of that. 

I have not changed my opinion about that. It's just... It's brain destructive, you know. And it's also economy destructive. 

Because... Like, of course they will choose a cinema band over an original band. If you are going 

to sell that for a lower cost, if you are going to undercut an original band and play some Ilayaraja or Rahman, of course you are going to get the gig. The sad part is they don't even undercut. 

They get paid way more than... That time they were undercutting. So, they were undercutting. And now they are paying... Now they are getting charged a lot more. 

But that was also... Like, what sort of a shithole of an environment we are in now. Like... I was only thinking... Okay, I am at a certain age. Like, I was like 28, 29. 

But what if I was 17 years old and doing this again? That means it's the most discouraging environment. Like, then... I was thinking, okay, then we need to influence people in a way that the thought becomes better and people decide to do something you know, original and unique and all of those things. So, I started going, attacking all of these cover bands. 

Cover artists, everything. And they got hurt and they attacked me back. Attack on social media? Social media only. 

But it didn't mean anything. So, I decided, okay, let me dig deeper and I started finding the caste discrimination and gatekeeping of these sort of environments. That's when they really... You are too... What? You are trying to play the victim card or something like that. 

Which is like complete crap by oppressors who are you know, being comfortable in their own seat. So, I was... Then, this was going on for a while and of course, I became very ostracised and life also, to an extent, wasn't great. Kurangan was breaking up and I was going through you know, like, massive personal crisis. 

And while this was going on and I think after this collective, the Madras Indy Collective was formed and doing all of these things, that's when Ranjith called me to... And that was the only... I was the only candidate available for that job, actually. They needed a politicised musician who can bring music. Like, bring... You mean, this is Casteless Collective? Casteless Collective. 

Multiple forms of music together and mentor people. So, I was the only one qualified at that time within their reach. So, I did that and see... So, with Casteless Collective, I could make that change. 

It's a bigger idea. That's when I was grinding the band. Like, I was a very tough band leader and they would all say that... Like, they would all... They would really complain a lot. 

But they would also... But we have no choice. It's... My job was not easy, you know. And because I was in that environment, even Ranjith used to tell me, you know, you're being too strict. 

No, but if I was not doing that, performance wouldn't increase, you know. The type of level of performance wouldn't increase because we're all original. Because suddenly I got my Sly and the Family Stone. 

If I'm going to get my Sly and the Family Stone, I better be Sly Stone, you know. I cannot be anything below that. And I was grinding them. 

The performance had to be like, really, really, really at top notch. No mistakes. So, I used to put... Like, even during jams, I used to put fines. 

Oh, okay. Like, every mistake... With James Brown? Yeah, yeah. Five rupees a bum note. 

Okay. Like, everything. And we used to collect together and whatever. 

We used to drink and party like, whatever, after the gig. But people would lose money. And they would be like, Five rupees, right? I'll pay... Some guys would have paid three thousand rupees for a single practise. 

Three thousand for a single practise. So, performance started becoming better and better. So, it actually worked? It really worked. 

And, see... Like, like this is all like from theatre directors which I studied from you know like European methods to imbibe into our thing because that's the only way because Kurangan is not even like close to performance as Caste as Collector and the headache is too much for Caste as Collector because there was 19 people there's more egos to deal with there were different types of musicians different social hierarchies to come together there was Brahmin like non Brahmin, Sikh, Dalit everybody coming together they all have to communicate first after the communication the music has to communicate then they all have to remove that inhibitions and intimidations and work together so what do we have to make everybody do get into that idea of performance you know and once they start performing that's when they realise how important it is to become a skilled like to a point the last show before we all we had a massive fight and then we realised that was the last show the last show we didn't practise hmm we we did not we were by then we were like three four years down performing regularly and the last show we did not practise at all because we could not even see eye to eye okay and once we got on stage everybody was mind-blown especially Ranjith then he was like what is this, they are in such a form without even practising see that's I mean you have to be really good to get into like you know especially dealing with something as you know political or something but then the music should also be good you should also be entertaining yeah they should also feel connected to it yeah you know and if we don't deliver see I from day one till now I do not care what people think about what music I make I do not serve the people at all I only make music to make me happy that's all it is okay and the the outcome of that is that people enjoy it or not I do not care the positive or the negative but my job needs to be done which is give a great performance for our own satisfaction so now from then till now which I see there's been a very big decline in performance and very few acts are taking like a serious are getting seriously motivated to make better music and perform better and present their work better for people to you know for them to have fun first of all on stage and then people to enjoy it and some reciprocation has to happen so this is what sorry I just went off good so this is all like my perspective on what performance has been you know throughout so you were talking about politics can politics and performance be separated or no no it's the same thing huh see it's there's nothing difference there's no difference at all first of all see we are in in Chennai which is primarily a very brahminical atmosphere for the performance spaces hmm they might deny it or not which is completely untrue hmm like this is not today or yesterday or whatever this is a thousands of years hmm the custodians of Carnatic music and Bharatanatyam are Isai Vellalar not Brahmins but still it's been appropriated and stolen and appropriated and that's what is happening for thousands of years and everybody has been has been ostracised so now that sort of behaviour as also as seeped into other cultural boards and everything hmm now what happens is the aesthetics become similar to what is what the curators want to set hmm so and once they do that the audience capacity is gets built on that particular aesthetic hmm and they think okay this is the only aesthetic available now to now to change that aesthetic I have a big 

task of convincing the audience that this is also music hmm this is a music as well now to get that into this is also music I need to get the curators to first accept and like curate this some affirmative action into putting this on stage but Chennai India that's not going to happen hmm only the blend works but the blend happens once in a while hmm or they should feel like they have been they are being benefactors hmm yeah right so and their aesthetic should be imbibed into that particular form of music hmm so so there are so many aspects which contribute to audience capacity development hmm and like aesthetics of what the ecosystem is now how will performance or anything become different it will be the same exact thing of you know like multiple same type of voices hmm like there won't be any change in like like even when I go for every year I go for Margazhi season hmm but it's like honestly like some three out of four times only three out of four performances I actually enjoy otherwise and that too it will be some veena player I'll be some singer I'll be some some violinist or somebody like that it's never collectively I like anything and enjoy and come back now it's also a redundant curation of the same type of people same gurus battling with each other now here now the only way we can change is if the existing ecosystem alters itself to bring other people in to have a healthier environment hmm for fostering new talent hmm so you know all of this what I spoke is completely political yes which only reflects on performance now if I don't if I if if if we don't include other types of instruments on stage the existing instrument type also is going to be the same say for example we play bass and we have a same culture it's a very fairly new instrument in the world yeah right every day is a new electric basis like very new that's all it's very new now only if we keep experimenting with it we'll know that Victor Wooten video where there's a piano player what he would do somebody else what would he do now there's an bass player in Kerala who use a tabla technique on the bass I know that some Jain Verma you yeah I see he's tried to make his own thing whether you like it or not it's totally different but he's attempted a new way of playing yeah now that has changed way of performance itself now now we are not giving an environment for people for growth where they can see other things blend with other things and become better so because of such a casteist and gatekept environment I feel we are still stuck and the only thing which even now I you see this old Grammy consideration you seem to be the grades from last year exactly but you see the music it's all the same like Carnatic jazz huh it's just nothing more than that like there's there's but if you immediately take it to some some an African conversation there'll be Burna boy there'll be so many other people who would experiment with their own form and bring contemporary forms and blend it huh and the whole performance is a new it's like a like learning yoga from a white man hmm right so don't like it's it's not going to work here huh so so what do we bring to the table it's is it just Carnatic music or it's just Hindustani music or is it probably Sufi no but how do we bring that in to bring that in we need to create an environment of performance for everybody hmm I feel that I don't know when it's going to change but this is the situation we are in okay so this is the problem of performance and politics here can you talk to me about the dynamics of running 19 person big band so it's three different groups one is a rock band one is the rappers and one is a Ghana group and those the other the the main like see Tamil journalist media has only covered the singers of the band which because for them they don't think apart from the singers anybody else is a culture yeah they don't think musicians are human beings so I have what I try to do is I 

kept the percussion section as a unit by itself hmm I kept on in charge for that hmm the rock band was an in charge so I divided them by groups huh and see the interaction could have been only outside of the environment where they had to unlearn this is not just Brahmins unlearning this is Dalits unlearning the environment also so everybody had to unlearn their own inhibitions and differences working together hmm so and can you give me some example how see sahib would be very quiet hmm because he wouldn't know what to talk hmm but these guys wouldn't be comfortable with the sahib because they'll think he like is on light-skinned boy you won't talk to us yeah you won't talk to us it's like looking at it's like taking for people for a show and lady and all they'll get freaked out when they see outside huh but once you go inside you know the whole environment changes huh so when they saw Manu is again like one one one totally different character hmm suddenly there's all English speakers the band was communicating in multiple languages huh there was North Madras Tamil there was English going on right and I had to be the only channel between everybody huh so because I was the only bridge because I grew up in their area but I became these guys huh so I could understand the dynamics between both okay what I need to tell them to make them work what I need tell them to make it work huh so the the funeral musicians who used to play the percussion they were of a different they were not even one of Ghana huh they were purely funeral huh and for them the gig is if somebody dies yeah there's no other gig okay yeah so now I've I've put a metronome there I'm like okay this is called a metronome all of us are going to come into this okay so they didn't get the idea but the metronome was in them huh they just didn't know huh it's just tapping that because once you naturally play rhythm for like years it'll it'll obviously come out so it's just communicating it's then they stopped once they knew sahib huh the inhibition stopped from their end huh so from sahib first it was sir then my mama it became that for sahib also it had to he's coming from Sam it's a different environment he had to think of this music only as a world musician hmm then he realised okay this is a I'm it was unlearning for him as well hmm Manu also is a lot of unlearning for me there was a lot of unlearning hmm it was I almost feel like with till the end of Kurangan I was a totally different person hmm then after that I became something else hmm completely different sort of animal because of the handling of these dynamics huh so I think it's that inhibitions and making people comfortable huh like the story is no like simple things like what what is who is Bob Marley hmm for you will be different from me huh so once you explain Bob Marley as all of us have some part of Bob Marley in us hmm that's when they realise it's as a there's egalitarian environment yeah there's a common thread we can follow so and the jokes the when once you make fun of each other that's when you know there's a lot of self-depreciating jokes which make it work and because I had this very militant like I was very militant about things hmm then you once we enter the jam room it's strict huh once we get out we can be whoever we want huh so that gave me a lot of obviously like things like alcohol helped hmm you know loosen up stuff and like finding some them meeting Manu in there Manu meeting them in that area on them then they realise okay this guy is no different from us because he's also broke musician like me huh so yeah so it's it's it's that similarity huh it's just one English theory on English theory that's the difference hmm then things just started sailing and since when we started travelling going to Kerala Bangalore when we started having fun okay everything just like it became like second nature to work with 

the band of course there was the only major issue I had was the singers the musicians were very chill eight musicians were very very good the singers were a little difficult to deal with because there's too much stardom also immediately like from within one or two shows they became stars okay so that was very difficult to deal with one is coming late for practise and obviously not able to take you know feedback and all those things but I didn't care I still said what I had to say because I had a very you know like like there was things that like Ranjith had put things on the line for the band so I had to make sure those things don't you know like flop and if we make one mistake because of our ego or if our stardom it is not just gonna set things back it's gonna set the politics back but that's all label is gonna come in and it was too sensitive and the problem was internal band conflict was much later the external people coming into this band only was even worse because it's a political band there's all this stardom as well and Tamil media and Tamil journalists see music journalism doesn't exist in this country yeah correct yeah they either they'll be like guitarist shimmery like that that's the maximum they would say huh they wouldn't really yeah understand the context of any form of music not just what the music which I which I was doing so externally people would be like yeah I want to work with Arivu I want to work with this it became a meno card I'm like I am serving a band okay I'm not serving people okay so and they would and because it was also Dalits in the band huh there used to be one that pushing and pulling around the way they behaved with these musicians and I was getting really triggered and I was known to fight with a lot of people I defend my band I mean I would fight with them it's like I will yell at my father you can't yell at my father like that so that sort of that was the dynamics which I was dealing with okay so you've been like you produced you've done music for movies you've done live shows what do you think are how are the the two different and how are they same and which one do you enjoy more honestly I enjoy live music more but I am not able to do that right now because of I've just been I think all of these years I've been working and suddenly I've hit that existential period but I'm starting a label now which I'm producing music for and now I found the purpose what music I want to do and what boundary I want to set so that I can do live okay and plus I've just I'm done just dealing with Chennai and that environment itself I want to see what is beyond this hmm with caste is culture I could reach really far but now I want to even if it takes my entire life I want to see how far it reaches but I think I can't say which one I I do enjoy performing live more but it's been like a couple of years since I've performed live okay so I've almost forgotten okay I still enjoy that if you ask me if there was an apocalypse and everything just got erased and everything I would definitely play live okay I mean if even if nothing I would play live and live my life okay I mean studio is great it's still a great creative environment it fuels the life huh it's it of course pays a lot more than what I get for life but it's still like there's nothing like playing like so you're talking about the financial realities it pays and stuff hmm it's like really tough for anyone making making it in performance industry so do you have any like insights to share with for other people upcoming people and financial realities of this financial realities is that I think micro economics only really works and musicians should really set their priorities straight hmm if you want to music you gotta be really responsible hmm and be disciplined hmm and have control over your money hmm whether it's even thousand rupees or 500 rupees you need to know how it you're spending it to understand who you are hmm based on that you have to take like and in 

one day you cannot achieve anything hmm one year also you can achieve anything but it's just this consistently trying every day hmm every single day you have to try and build an environment for yourself you don't have to because of Instagram and all of this creative jealousy you know this sort of comparison and insecurity you don't immediately have to be like the other person hmm you came to do music for your own thing that's what I'm realising now hmm I guess all of us you don't think much later yeah yeah stay for me it took me like till the age of 45 to realise what I should do exactly once you realise yeah why you did this and what I should be doing yeah and what that this just cutting the you know that noise yeah and that whole that mind talking to you it's just the chatter hmm you will figure out exactly what you want to do hmm I realised that much later in life but I wouldn't say much later I realised it at a very very different point of time my life but that time I was I became zero finances were like back to minus and everything but now I've built it again but that's only it I built it again just because of focussing on my own niche and not trying to steal others niches and comparing my niche to another niche if your audience is just five people you have to really work with those five people to build it and instead of like because that five will expand huh and if you've lost things things have gone away from you it doesn't matter because because we are doing music for just our own enjoyment our own fun so if you have to keep get some financial literacy get your priority state talk to people and the social media you don't have to get influenced by by that and I would say think of passive incomes like life should be a bucket of passive incomes it just we cannot put all our eggs in one basket and expecting that to blow up that is not going to happen because even like musicians who are like X major rock bands are still like are doing like sync licence work yeah you know it's to pay the bills so get and most importantly you have to a lot of self-love is needed to keep moving forward yeah it can be brutal at times it's kind of it is only brutal so let's I think it's just a lot of self-love and just keeping it you know that f1 movie was a big yeah as an you know you just keep driving yeah nothing else okay you were talking briefly about alcohol and drugs so what is your experience with alcohol and drugs in the performance environment not in personal life and like on stage with bands and rehearsals does it has it been positive negative I wouldn't like now I'm sober so I wouldn't say positive it obviously help it helps procrastination and it doesn't give you clarity lots of brain fog and everything but it was accessible throughout very very closely accessible throughout my life I mean every sort of drug possible this is not just Chennai or something but wherever I've been the musician environment is like that somebody will be smoking a joint somewhere but it's your call what is important whether you want to smoke it and like you want to continue doing that that's your call or you want to like you know figure out a way into building something because I don't think I would have done all of this if I was just doing drugs you know I don't think I would have achieved all of these things or whatever path I have taken so far just doing drugs and drinking hmm yeah priorities only yeah but of course it was their part of my life but but did it take you some time to learn this yeah it took me a long time to learn that because I think I was also environment right friends and everything will influence thing like but you know you can't really the thing is if you know the situation your situation once you realise your situation then you realise hmm do you want to buy drugs or do you want to like invest that money into some mutual funds so this is spoken like awakened yeah it's it's that choice only yeah you it's just it's 

your choice where you put that money it's totally up to you we have all the money in the world you do whatever you want to but I've seen a lot of people with a lot of money not do all of those things and survive through yeah okay one final question we are living in the age of AI and very digital world Instagram reel 30-second reel is only music lots of people think what is the value of human performance going to be you think in coming forward I think going forward going forward I think it's going to be great because the only way a musician is going to be legitimised is forming life because there's a lot of AI slop and all of those things people will start you know like see AI is going to purge a lot of jobs yeah but it's also going to enhance your creativity I'm telling you creativity and breakthrough gatekeeping in fact I'm doing a lecture on this it helps you explore beyond what you cannot actually access for me it opened up a lot of like grant writing or all of those things of for me getting funds from lots of things I've been using AI for like what three to four years I've been using it hmm like every form gen AI to like visual to audio to so no everything I've used hmm it has reduced cost for me but I've still have a like this movie which I'm working on called Kabhi Kabhi hmm every song is sung by a singer hmm a human singer and I've recorded like choir everything on top of that I had like AI you know like sampling and all of those things which I've used now to break through some lyrical ideas also it helped me now it can really help you actually as to open up things in your mind but if you completely thrive on it yeah it's nothing you can't be dependent on a person hmm forget AI you just have to like it's just regulatory being regulatory and being disciplined or how to use AI hmm if there's no discipline if you're just gonna whatever it gives you take just foolish it's like it's like religion like you just whatever you trust you cannot take and you just have to question things around and yeah the data also whatever I've checked with people here and in Silicon Valley and everything not every data which is taken it I'd know it doesn't know yeah so like I've gone the I've been hired to train AI platforms and everything but it doesn't know anything like Juma I just put like name five earlier singers hmm it doesn't know put Ramesh Suresh gave me an answer you should tell me that there are no singers because I know who is Ramesh and Suresh then the data is getting trained on is also screwed up so I feel musicianship is going to enhance I've seen a lot of great stuff but of course like the songs length is reduced hmm but I think collectively as musicians if we take our individual decisions to make whatever songs we want to how long we want to hmm our audience will come now this anti AI hate also I mean this yeah I hate will also bring a new audience yeah so whether it's there or not the an ecosystem is going to expand okay wonderful thank you cinema this has been super I hope thank you so much for having me good luck for everything