Ep 27 Siva ananth - Allrounder

In a truly unique and introspective conversation, writer, producer, and lyricist Siva Ananth (Ponniyin Selvan, Madras Talkies) joins Aravind to dissect the very nature of performance, blending personal history with deep philosophical insight.

From a nervous four-year-old on stage to his seasoned perspective on a film set, Siva explores his "complex relationship" with performance, attention, and the fundamental shift facing artists today.

• Stage vs. Screen: Football vs. Cricket: Discover the fundamental differences between the collective, improvisational energy of theatre (where co-actors are allies) and the isolated, technically perfect demands of cinema (where the actor must "switch on and switch off" on demand).
• The Director's Eye: Siva details what makes an exceptional performer: not just talent, but the intelligence and creative choices visible in a first impression. He shares his core belief that a director's job is to guide and choose the best performance, not to micromanage or teach acting.
• The Higher Purpose of Art: Moving beyond mere narcissism, Siva shares how the global COVID experience revealed the spiritual necessity of art—music, film, and performance—to sustain and enrich life, even when compared to life-saving professions.
• The Future of Human Value (The Final Question): The episode culminates in a profound discussion on the dawning AI age. Is AI just the newest tool (like digital color correction), or a threat to the inherent value of the human fingerprint on art? Siva argues for AI to be subservient to the artist, making the mastery of new technology simply the next essential human skill.

A must-listen for anyone interested in the soul of acting, the craft of direction, and the preservation of human creativity in a mechanized world.

Transcript

Hello Siva, welcome to Stage Matters. Thank you so much for taking the time out. Thanks, thanks for having me Arvind. 

Yeah, many people will not know this, but me and Siva go a long way back from we both are classmates from BITS Pilani, where I first saw him on stage doing plays. So Siva wears many hats. He's been an actor both on stage and on film. 

He's a director, he's a producer, he's an executive producer. So we will do things a little differently from the podcast. I thought you were going to say he's both an actor in life and in cinema. 

So we'll talk about performance from all the different angles that he has been through. So Siva, take us back to the beginning. I've seen you in college doing, acting in plays. 

So, and you also acted in film. So how is, how did it start for you? And what is the difference you see between the two? Thanks for having me Arvind. And I've been thinking about your podcast ever since you invited me. 

And I thought I don't belong here because I'm not technically a performer per se. But then I wanted to think about performing itself. And probably, you know, share my thoughts with you and listen to you and maybe have a discussion around that. 

I was on stage at the age of four, like many kids for a fancy dress competition in Mana Madurai. So my grandfather was this very curious, intellectually rich school principal. He was retired by the time I was born. 

And he continued to remain a student of life. Like he will read, he will talk to people, he will, even at the age of 98, he was underlining new words in a book that he was reading that he could learn. He was totally into appreciating good things in life. 

One thing he used to do was every time we had a beggar or a nomad passing by and stopping at a doorstep, singing a song, asking for alms, or food, while the food is being packed for that person, he will invite us to take a look at that person's costume and the way they are performing. Like if this is a singer from North India, or probably from the gipsy community, he'll point out the beads that they're wearing or the clothes that, you know, around their neck. So every time he'll say, that's how they dress up, and look at the beard, look at the hair, and look at the instrument she's holding in her hand. 

So there was always this curiosity, there was always this, and then he'll have this conversation with them, try to learn where they learned that song from. So he'll teach us those lines. So performing from that age was the thing that I've always, you know, been fascinated with, even 

though I never considered myself a performer. 

And that's got something to do with me going on stage at the age of four, when I was actually doing this role as a medicine man. Only thing is, I forgot the lines. And I froze. 

And now I can understand why people found it probably cute, because it was a four-year-old kid, but it was me on stage. So it was embarrassing for me. Still, they gave me the first prize. 

I think it was match fixing, because I was the school principal's grandson. The first thing that hit me was when you're performing, when you're on stage, particularly in this case, you feel the gaze of hundreds of people on you. And it either gives you the high, or it makes you nervous. 

I think that's the fundamental difference between a performer and a non-performer. A performer actually wants attention, seeks attention. And that is the fodder that keeps them going. 

I can imagine some famous politicians in our state, all around the globe, living well into their 90s, being active. That's simply because they go on stage, and there are these thousands of people just looking at them. There's a day-to-day activity for them. 

So for me, that was the first thing I learned, that you are being watched, and you either like it or you don't like it. I probably don't like it that much. So I didn't become a performer per se, but I became curious. 

So it started with me going on stage in our village place, and I used to sing in the prayer. Horrible singer. But I don't have any stage fright because of all this. 

So one of the first things that happened to me when I joined BITS in 1991, along with you and all our friends, was that I came from a Tamil medium background. I couldn't speak a word of English. I was not complexed about it, but I was aware of it. 

I knew I had to up my game. But one of the things that really excited me about the Pilani campus was this thriving theatre community and this huge Tamil theatre base. Every semester we staged plays that were watched by 800 to 1000 people, and it was a big event. 

So performing actually got me out of my cocoon and gave me this freedom to express myself. So that's my complex relationship with performing per se. I'm not introverted, but I don't like to put myself out there for judgement every time. 

I don't have the courage. I don't think I have a natural talent to impress people with what I have. But I also appreciate the beauty of it. 

So I hope that answered your question. So you've done both live stage plays and acted in cinema. So can you paint a picture of both and what are the similarities and the differences? Okay. 

Similarities I have to think about. We'll get there eventually in this rambling answer I'm going to give you. This whole episode is going to be rambling because I don't know what I'm going to ask you. 

Because it is not my usual type of guest. Surprise. I don't know what I'm going to tell you. 

We're just going to roll with the process. So one of the important differences I found was that when you're on stage, when you go on stage, when the spotlight is on you, and you know all these people are looking at you behind those lights, you probably see the faces of the first few rows with the spillover light on their faces. But you know, there are many more sitting in the back rows, focussing on you and the others. 

That gives you this adrenaline high. Your focus becomes sharper. And you're consumed by the art. 

We have to talk about that at some point because performing is all about losing yourself in the beauty of the art you're practising, be it singing, dancing, playing an instrument or acting. So that is one thing. And you find the people on stage with you, being your allies. 

Sometimes, I mean, let me get a little sentimental unnecessarily, but you feel like they are an extension of yourself. Because they're completing you and you're completing them. I mean, look at Led Zeppelin. 

It's four people making that music. And how they come together. I mean, do you want to? Can you imagine that band without John Paul Jones? I mean, can you? So on stage, you feel like you are one unit and you're coming together and doing this and there is some humility in you because you are performing it for these people. 

You want them to like, you want them to be with you. You want them to understand what you are conveying to them. Cinema is a little more technical than theatre. 

I think in theatre or a stage performance can take in an error here or there. Of course, you want every performance to be error free, but you have to keep rolling when things go wrong. In cinema, you are aiming for something a little more perfect, not because it is a superior art form per se. 

All art forms are great. But in cinema, your work is going to be scrutinised in repeat viewings. A live show is over. 

Whatever happened, happened. So you try to make it even smoother in cinema, right? So when you're acting, you're actually aiming for perfection, which means you are actually not batting with others. That was the main difference I felt when I performed on day one in VK Karmani, for example. 

This is already 17 years into cinema. I had directed a film. I had worked in many films. 

I had seen great performances from up close, but now I am acting in this scene and I'm there with Mr. Prakash, Dhulkar and Nitya Menon and Leela Samson and Vinodini. Some of them are very seasoned actors. I think all of them are. 

Maybe Leela ma'am, she's a dancer, but they're all seasoned performers. I'm there with them in that scene. And there was a child actor as well. 

What I felt was utter loneliness. When the director calls for rehearsals or asks us to get ready for the take, I found total isolation. I have totally isolated. 

Not that it was bad, but everybody was focussing on their responsibility at that point. Hitting the mark, staying in light, not losing focus, making sure they're favouring camera. Oh, and that person is going to do this and let me do this on time so that I also contribute to the scene. 

So I was trying to talk to Prakash Raj. He said, shut up. He's a very good friend. 

It's very funny. And then I realised that nobody wants to lend you a helping hand at that point. In theatre, on stage, somebody forgets a line and the others step in and manage. 

You even speak their line at times and try to cover it up or improvise some stuff. So the fundamental difference between theatre and cinema as far as acting goes is that in one, it's a team effort. You're playing football. 

Here you're playing cricket. It's still a team game, but at that time, it's an individual game within the team. That's how I felt. 

That is a fundamental difference I found between the two. And the other one, which a real actor can probably elaborate on or vouch for, is that a theatrical performance is you living that character for that duration. Maybe you need prep time as well and you need winding down time as well. 

I mean, those are elements of your process that differ from person to person. But for the performance from start to finish, you maintain a consistency in your expression by being true to that character for that duration. Cinema is all about switching on and switching off because you perform and then you're not going to perform for an hour or so when the lighting changes. 

And the bigger difference is your performance is not going to be linear in cinema because your scenes are going to be shot in a completely different order from how they're going to appear in the final cut. So you're probably going to die on day one and you're going to go to college on the last day. So to actually map out that graph and hitting that note on that particular day is a different skill compared to being in the zone when you're on stage where you're allowing your internal energy to propel you forward. 

I think these two, I would say, are the big differences I found. Brilliant. So since you brought up perfection in cinema, I want to ask you one thing. 

It used to be analogue and film before and now it's all digital. Digital, I think it offers you the thing of shooting as much as you want and whereas in analogue and in film you had to, you didn't have the luxury of. So how has that changed in terms of a performer's life? Because I noticed that in music with all the tools like I think some people have become lazy. 

Yeah. I think you should, if you were to compare film shoot versus music production in the analogue versus the digital conversation, you should probably imagine a big orchestra recording as a parallel to a film shoot. So you can have multiple cameras and you can keep the camera running all the time and maybe you'll capture all the rehearsals and maybe different interesting bits from different performers in different takes which you can assemble later in edit. 

That luxury you didn't have in the film days. But the number of days can't change anyway because you are still talking about saving only the cost of negative. But if the shoot spills over to the next day, you're going spend a lot more money. 

Same thing with music. You can probably do your programming and play with it or mix or treat the sound second by second. You can do that incessantly. 

Yeah, you can do it but you won't be able to record a 50 piece orchestra every day. So I am treating film shoot more like that where there are so many other elements that you can't stretch beyond a given time limit. So I hope I'm able to establish that. 

So those things don't change from analogue to digital. The cost or the scale and the number of people who are employed. But what it does specifically to performance is having a digital camera on set or multiple cameras is that it probably makes you less nervous and less focused also. 

Again, I hate drawing another cricket parallel but that's how I'm able to say this. It's like the introduction of helmets actually spoiled the ability to play bounces. Earlier there was no other choice but to either leave the ball or play the hookshot. 

Now you're probably in two minds. Yeah, apparently a lot more people have been getting hit since 1978 than the 101 years before that. It's simply because helmets have taken away the fear of death and also it has diminished the ability to play short pitch bowling. 

Similarly, having multiple cameras that are running all the time takes away the stress of delivering it right along with everybody else. But it also takes away the sharpness. I actually don't like very chilled out personalities on set. 

I like people who are a little on the edge. I like a little bit of stress. I like a little bit of high energy people who can propel these things forward. 

This probably reduces that. But these are minor differences, Arvind, because this is not a choice that we have. We have to accept it as the way forward. 

I don't have any nostalgia about the earlier era. Okay. So like there is obviously technique and skill and all that in performing. 

Do you think there's something beyond that? Something even more spiritual? I've been thinking about that. I'm able to easily understand our desire to make money, to buy things, to hold things. Because it's part of our survival. 

I mean, you need food, you need safety. And then you probably need comfort when you have all these things. So I'm able to understand that. 

I think not having any of that driving us to the extremes, it's also something I understand. I don't know how I'll handle hunger. I don't know if I'll end up going to a shop and stealing food. 

I might. I will, I think. Everybody will. 

So the connection between morality and survival is very, very complex. You can't really say what is morally right or wrong when it comes to survival. The desire for fame and attention is something different. 

I think it is a little bit of narcissism. I think a little bit of, I would say, perasaai in Tamil. How would you say that in English? Selfish desire? Something like that? Yeah, probably. 

Wanting more than what you deserve. So I think that the attention-seeking nature in us, it is also in all of us. It's probably how animals attract mates for procreation. 

One monkey jumps better than the other one. Probably he's the dude that the other monkeys like. So there is this desire to be noticed, to be treated like a special person. 

So when it comes to performing, there is a little bit of narcissism there. There is this desire to feel better than the rest. But if there are no performers, there's no fun in life. 

So that is how I see it. If you're talking about the philosophical aspect of it. I'm talking about when you're on stage and performing, is there something that you transcend beyond that? Yeah. 

I feel that you feel guided by an inner force. People who believe in God might say it's God. I mean, for atheists like me, it's probably the beauty of the art form itself. 

You are a musician. I've seen you perform on stage. You've always had fun. 

Even now you're having fun. I think it's something else that is pushing you from inside. Definitely not God. 

So I feel when you're on stage or in front of camera, the point that I mentioned, the narcissism and the desire to feel special, the desire to soar above the common people, leaving aside those aspects, there is also a dedication to this art form that comes from within you, that you express 

through your body, through your voice, through your fingers, if you're playing an instrument. That actually makes the mundane existence of the rest of the world better. I am grateful that there is Eric Clapton. 

I saw him perform live in 2002 in Munich. Probably the happiest 90 minutes of my life. And it means something. 

It means something to hear a true artist belt out his or her music or dance performance from them. I think it makes life better. And now I'm saying this in 2025. 

I wouldn't have said this in 2019. Until that point, when I was what, 45 already? For the first 45 years of my life, I always had this left hemisphere versus right hemisphere debate going on in my head. People like you who studied physics. 

I always admire people who are very good with science and math and engineering. I was not very good with that. But you have a master's degree in physics from BITS. 

This shows the value of the degree. So I love the idea of somebody being a scientist or an economist. I find it fascinating that people could play with numbers, save lives, do something concrete that you can say, you know, this medicine I invented, you know, that's something really cool. 

But during COVID, there is this doctor I met on social media. She works in San Francisco, I think. Her name is Priya, but not our common friend. 

And this is another lady who I met, who I connected on Facebook or something. So she wrote to me saying how the movies that we make or the songs we produce for our films help her deal with life. I was saying, you're saving lives. 

You are in a hospital. You're taking care of ICU patients. And she said, no, no, that is there. 

But we need art to keep us going. I think I was alone for 20 days. I could actually think about this. 

And I could see that the whole world was completely leaning on music and cinema and television to pull through that phase. I think guitar sales went up all time high. So there are more Clapton's coming up. 

So I do believe that art has a higher purpose also. That way I feel dedicating yourself to performing art and putting yourself out there and risking failure each time you are on is such a cool thing to do. It's an absolutely fabulous thing to do. 

Brilliant. Let's get to the other side now. You've been a director of both film and theatre. 

What do you look for in a performer? And how do you manage the two? I think as a director, no, no, no, I get it. But I haven't directed enough to say this with authority. Yeah. 

But since you are asking me, I'm going to answer genuinely from whatever I think is correct. You've also worked closely with a great director. Yeah. 

I feel it's very, very easy to spot a good actor. Just like how you can spot a good singer. Let's say I sing and S.P. Balasubramaniam sings. 

Let's see who wins this competition. You know what I mean? I think it's obvious when a good performer puts out their craft out there because anybody can connect with the truth in their output. I would say that a director needs to have good taste, whether it's in theatre or cinema. 

We'll talk about the difference in technique and everything. But I think from a director's point of view, choosing an actor is actually pretty easy. When the person walks in, you know if that person is going to be an actor or not. 

Okay. How? Just from the timing, their expression and the way they react to what is being said to them. You know that they are thinking, you know that they are drawing from their life experiences to make a connection and come with this reply. 

So you know that there is more than what is on the plate right now. That you know they are actually going to pull out a Woody Allen joke at some point or a joke from a Nagesh film or probably quote a line from a Charles Dickens novel and make whatever they are doing a little more profound, a little more interesting than what you can imagine. I think a director will be able to spot that in a performer the minute they interact with them. 

So maybe I'm saying intelligence is a very important factor. Not talking about the intelligence of the director. It varies from person to person. 

I'm talking about the intelligence of the performer, where there is a little bit of thought behind what they are doing and a little addition to what you are asking them to do, what is required on paper at that point. That makes a person a little better. A small gesture, rolling of the eyes or doing nothing at all like Robert De Niro does at times. 

That actually elevates the performer. I'm sure you will be able to give more examples. You are saying like improvisation from just beyond what is on the script. 

Yeah, but that's next level. Let's say somebody reads a few lines on paper. You can see who is an actor and who is not. 

We are not even getting into full-fledged performance. It's the intonation or lack of it. It's the volume level and it's the eye contact or avoiding eye contact. 

You know there are creative choices made before any direction is given, before any actual acting takes place. At the first interaction, you know the choices that are made by a person and that will tell you if that person can act or not. To start with, I am sure Jack Nicholson can just walk into a room and be cast as the leader of any film anywhere in the world. 

There is that quality in him that shows that he's got the performer in him. That's what I'm talking about. So from a director's point of view, choosing an actor is probably 60-70% done on first impression. 

And then comes the ability to hold your attention. I think everybody gets exposed in a close-up. Yeah. 

So if I were to place a camera close to you or have a telephoto lens covering your expression intensely, unless there is something inside of you, you're going to look flat. And if you overact, you're going to look stupid. So the director should know that as well. 

I'm talking about film at this point. When it comes to theatre, you always have basic requirements like a good voice And an overall body language that looks good how they walk how they stand You know, there is Victorian theatre. There is Indian theatre leaving all the Definitions aside, there are some people who look good on stage some people who don't so it goes back to my theory that 60-70 percent of the casting is done on your first impression. Okay, so When you're directing you're always looking for truth, you're looking for a Talent that's already there because our director is not a teacher of acting Hmm a director cannot teach a cinematographer way to place the light So it is stupid to assume that the director can teach acting. 

Okay, that's a completely different ballgame Huh? I think a director should be able to choose. Hmm when an artist puts out, huh? Is this good, okay, is this okay? And and when they ask you those questions that director should be able to choose the right Okay performance so that the overall play or film turns out the way it should so Literally, the director is directing an artist not teaching. Huh? So as a director That's probably what I okay Look for and this I learned over many years. 

Hmm. So when I directed the first time I think I was over enthusiastic. Huh? I was underprepared, huh, I Think I'm obviously better now, I think I would be even Better many years later, but otherwise there's no point in doing this one of the main differences I find in the way I approach actors is that now I'm able to actually understand what an actor requires to deliver a good performance Mainly because I've also acted now I can understand how my my director got work out of me. 

I worked with Only three different directors and All three are personally fond of me my boss my Colleague Bijoy, you know like that Everybody knows me. So they they know my strengths and weaknesses Leaving that aside. I think what I understood from the way they handle me as opposed to how they handle other actors Is that they stay out of your way when you're doing things well, okay They don't have this Desire to micromanage you they don't tell you now you turn now you raise your eyebrow that bullshit doesn't happen Not that I did it I'm just giving you an overall idea that I've learned this now and I like the idea of allowing an actor to blossom When they overwrite you can tell them but if you speak less, they will automatically act less. 

Huh? I think overacting comes from Micromanagement from the directors so that is something that I have okay learned I will continue to learn that I think when to say something when to shut up I think that is very very important. The other one is that like everybody else? Not just in this field Everybody else in this world. Hmm when actors leave their homes in the morning. 

Hmm. They want to have a good day They want to do a good job. They want to be appreciated They want everybody to tell them. 

Oh, you're such a fun person to work with. Hmm, and they want to go home Let's leave aside people with issues or egos or Other problems, huh? I'm talking about a regular working professional. I'm talking about the best working professional in the country I'm talking about mr. Amitabh Bachchan and mr. Nasruddin Shah. 

Mr. Kamal Hassan and mr. Shah Rukh Khan They leave their home or miss Deepika. They leave their home And Wanting to do their best and deliver a good performance and make life easy for everybody from the producer To their personal assistant and come back home happy. This is the desire of a doctor or a banker or a plumber or a painter This a director should remember that actors are not here to give you trouble. 

Hmm Nor are they there to? Be praised by you, huh? They are here for a job. Hmm, just like you are they want to Impress you. Hmm. 

So you better make them comfortable But don't really become a fan when you're working with them That is something that I I'm able to see in the way my boss gets work out of that He he likes good performance. He's always nice to them But he also likes them to have the responsibility of Delivering good work on that day. It's not you begging them to do something for your film. 

It's their film as well You know what? I'm saying? So so from a director from a director's point of view handling a performer Requires this understanding that a performance is supposed to be Towards a common goal. Also, I'm talking about That kind of a performance like in a band or in a play or in a movie where you're part of a collective A director's job is to actually let the Performance just shine. Okay and stay out of the way. 

Okay, so you said something that when you were directing your film you were underprepared So what is being prepared for an actor or a performer entail for as a director? What is your preparation? What do you need to do? I think I Was making the same mistakes that many of us do in the film industry. My script was not perfect When you haven't worked out the script in detail Then that's going to leave everybody in a confused state Like for example you Walk into a set Keeping 50% of the things open. Hmm. 

You can say this or that you can stand here or there You can place the camera here or there whatever Then it doesn't help. Huh? Being 100% sure is also not going to allow any improvisation or Something magical to happen. Yeah But being underprepared is no excuse for allowing Improvisation to take place. 

All that should have happened at the rehearsal stage. That is the biggest mistake I made I think I should have taken more time To lock the script and I should also have taken more time to rehearse with the actors and that would have helped That would have made everybody comfortable. I like to work these days with minimal Conversations On-set. 

All the arguments are already over. We've had them with a cup of coffee sitting in office Joking 

at each other. We've really had a go at each other and agreed on something other technicians and other Production support or other actors. 

We are all sorted now. We are here to just perform in a way This is like the stage performance The day of the shoot so that kind of preparedness Is something that I've learned to have these days. I didn't know that then Okay and what about the preparation on the part of the actor because I've heard stories of actors going like deep into this thing and going to into the jungle to Stay with the forest people to prepare for that. 

I want to know what your take is on that And and I also heard the other side that people don't even know their script and they come to What do you think is right, I Think it's an individual thing. I think so too. I think so too as long as your Approach is working for the director. 

No as long as your approach is How you see you can serve the art form Hmm, if you know your strengths and weaknesses if you think I'm gonna stand here Huh, and I'm gonna react to what is being thrown at me That's what I am good at. Hmm, then you should probably prepare accordingly, but if you say I'm going to visualise hmm and be ready for any eventuality Like if this happens, I'll do this if that happens. I'll do this Then you should prepare that way. 

There are times Arvin when I'm about to drive at 2 a.m. In the morning to go to the airport to pick up somebody. Hmm, I Wake up at 115. Hmm have my coffee stand for a minute. 

I'm actually imagine Imagining the road from my house to airport Okay, this way there'll be a signal this road might be a little bumpy Then I'll be turning right and go because I am worried that I'm probably half asleep. Huh? I want to be fully prepared and There are times before we go to shoot when I sit with the team and I am asking around the table Hmm, what do you think is gonna go wrong? Who do you think is not gonna turn up which prop or costume hmm or vehicle is gonna come late How are we gonna get ready? And there are some days Where I'm saying, let's just go there and see what happens These are the days when you probably have 10,000 people and seven cameras You can't plan everything to perfect To perfection and you're gonna let the energy of the large crew take over So I think as an individual performer, you should know what is required for that scene that day If I have to cry, hmm, and I don't know where the crying is gonna come from. I better get method on the matter Rather than faking it in front of camera and getting caught and looking stupid forever Because it's going to be short that it's going to be in DVDs and on Netflix for years. 

Yeah, you better Seek the truth and bring it out. And if that requires a Visit to the forest you better take it because that's the beauty of being an artist. Huh? You are serving the art form. 

Hmm and You have to find the best way to achieve that. Hmm You also are saying it is your this thing to find out what the actor needs to bring out the best So what what is this? What is what do they need usually? It's it like you mean like things around them or like is it like a vanity van or or is it something in the process? You're talking about The name is true to the nature vanity so Again let me take the example of Prakash Raj when he was acting in okay, he's actually a 

high energy guy very funny Yeah, I watch all this Yeah Have you met him once long back? I went to his office to meet him. Yeah, he's a very Interesting person. 

Yeah, I Saw him on the sets of okay company before I started acting with him when he asked me to shut up But the day before that I met him and he's always a boisterous person And I said hi to him and he said hi to me like an old uncle. Hmm. He's very nice very soft. 

Yeah He looked like he was wearing khadi and ready to go on the dandy much behind Gandhiji. I'm wondering what happened to him And if I am looking at him the way he moved from his chair to the coffee counter unto the director's chair and coming back I Realised that he's actually In that character he's playing. Okay in that film He's this calm nice guy who's taking care of his wife. 

Yeah, and he is walked Onto the set as that person. Hmm So when you're asking me what an actor needs is that when you realise that this is what the actor needs You don't go sit next to him and play a YouTube video of a cat swimming in water Look at this not you let him be huh? You let him be and I've seen different actors Kamal sir is completely different. He'll be joking with you He'll be telling you some story from M. R. Radha Nagesh times Hmm, and then when he has to go in front of camera, he'll go there and switch off his bit Completely differently. 

He'll come back and continue the story from where he left That's a completely different approach so you you understand what these person what these people need and it's your job as the producer or the director to Keep the environment right for their art to flourish This is exactly like what Ganguly said that you can't like treat a Rahul Dravid the same way you treat a Yuvraj Singh I'm so glad you're also Giving cricket examples Yeah, so that's what I think One needs I wish I were a performer. I wish I had the ability to Play the piano solo in Laila when people come home right now. I'm keeping my coffee cup on my piano You know, I I wish I could pick up the mic and sing Manra Mantha Tendulki like our friend Vaidhi used to do and impress people with my Skills, unfortunately, I'm not a performer Not that I want attention and focus. 

I've thought about it. I've thought about it. If I wanted I probably don't have it in me So I don't seek it also But I am very very Grateful for all these people putting Something from deep inside out there And asking you to judge them. 

I think it takes enormous courage Yeah, it takes a lot of courage to invite Ridicule so to speak. Let's say I'm a stand-up comedian and I go there and crack a joke and nobody laughs Hmm, I won't be able to sleep that night bad. I think it's a very very difficult thing to do But without artists without performers life is going to be boring you go to these totalitarian societies You know How lucky we are to live in a country with so many languages so many cultures so many faiths And so many different art forms. 

Yeah Have you seen the work of mr. Ratan TM you should if you haven't from I think that there is some fantastic performing art In the Northeast, I'm sure you know the rock music scene that 

you know, so I think Living in such a vast country with so many Different art forms and so many different types of performances. I think we are so culturally rich Yeah that we should be the happiest people on earth. Yeah So, how do you deal with difficult performers who are like Like what do you mean by difficult performance not bad performance Personality wise like ego, and I'm sure you've had your share again. 

I have to It's called order a martyr Adityan karakana I'm not a party tanker akuna you you I mean like hostess for courses You need to have different Approaches to get work out of different people. Okay from a personal angle. I would say that on day one in Okay company money said Told me to do something. 

Hmm by then I had spent 17 years as his assistant Hmm, I'm used to carrying out his orders to the tea Hmm and even when I'm doing something I'm directing a background actor or I'm giving cue to some vehicles to move. I always keep an eye on him During the shot so that my timing is right. It goes well with what he is seeing Through the viewfinder or the monitor, huh? So when I'm acting when he has asked me to do something He probably felt that I'm still looking for his approval all along the way He actually avoided talking to me. 

Huh? He moved to the next room eventually So that I don't take too long to get it, right that I had to become less conscious of his presence This was day one. I Think that was a technique not that the man who's directing Shah Rukh Khan and won't believe Didn't direct me not because I better than them because he didn't want to waste time on me. Huh? That is just an example of how you approach a person who needs Less attention or less direction because that's all they can do by pushing them You're going to break them rather than mould them. 

So that is one way of getting things done similarly when you're talking about people who are difficult to deal with who Now I've been a few years ago, I would have given you a different answer I feel like anybody having These attitude problems. I probably look at them as someone having a bad day or having some other problem Maybe a personal conversation. Maybe an arm around their shoulder will sort it out unless you are the reason for their problem. 

Yeah other than that, it's probably a good idea to Give them the confidence that you are there to help them out And earn their trust and be truthful about it. Not really go around them and bitch behind their backs Make them comfortable then I think They'll be able to do better. I mean, I'm that's how I feel today And you have probably brought them on hired them for the project for good reasons. 

Yeah Maybe there is something in them that you liked that is still there. You are going for that Yeah, and if that means you have to ignore this In fact, you even have to play along and allow them to insert you a bit. That's also okay Because a director is also an artist not a performing artist, but an artist Yeah, and this is how I probably paint this part where my brushstroke has to be softer And that is probably how I will get this person to come around So let's take it to a totally different angle. 

We all know how difficult it is financially At least till you made it to a certain level can take years and years and years Do you have some kind of money advice for people who are looking to get into this? I'm from a lower middle-class family I'm still not wealthy But back then and now and hopefully in future also, I've never Worried about my financial status too much. I think that is a very important Trade to have if you want to have a long run in this Because I wanted to be in movies Because I wanted to be in movies not for the money not for the money not that I'm gonna say no to money yeah, but the thing is I never imagined myself owning swanky cars and Having a private jet because that was not the reason you like this. I Think within the World of these artists. 

I don't think they are comparing their bank balances at all. Hmm There will be a writer or a musician. Hmm who comes walking. 

Hmm and There are this multi billionaire moguls Will greet them warmly. Hmm. They will all treat each other equally and They'll probably Weep when the performance is over genuinely Because people who are putting in money also our fans, right I Think that Is what you're going for? Hmm to start with if you ask me you can't plan your finances Hmm that well in this. 

Hmm but the other thing I learned was Where in my assistant director days every time a check turned up at the table, I would pull out my wallet To probably go Dutch, I don't think I would have had the money to pay for everyone. Hmm And money sir told me that he would take the tab. I would say no, sir I'll chip in and he'll say no no, but it's just money. 

Hmm Later when you have money you pay for my dinner. Hmm for life, which is a great advice because since 2007 Hmm Youngsters when they go out with me I insist on paying because I know they're gonna take the tab for life once they make their movies I have that deal going with four five of them the minute you become director. You are paying for my food So you have to understand that Everyone needs a helping hand including you So feel comfortable taking it. 

Hmm when you Need but remember to offer your hand because The person who's coming up? Behind you is in the same position. You were in a few years ago, so financial management For a struggling artist all over the world is difficult. Huh? You have to decide what is your comfort level? How much? Can you? Share with others how much can you take from others? When do you start giving back when do you realise that it's too painful for you to move on? Having a blind belief that things will work out is stupid The universe is not designed to make you happy You have to make yourself happy and if that requires realigning your dreams you have to But before you go there I think you should Not confuse your quest for artistic Happiness with financial comfort they are different things In fact, they are probably misaligned most of the time. 

Hmm If you have one the other may not come at all, they may come together But you have to aim for one and stick to it. So if you are having a tough time It's okay hmm it happened for van Gogh it happened for Mozart Happened for Shakespeare. Hmm. 

So it's okay. Martin Scorsese used to go to parties just to find some funding. Hmm Irfan Khan used to Do any role that came his way? Despite being such a great actor, so it's okay wherever you are in your journey, it's correct. 

Hmm You are aiming for something else. So go for it. That's what I would say. 

Okay Very well said What is your experience with people using substances alcohol drugs during a performance like Whether it's you personally or actors you've directed and produced Is it? Does it like do people is it common do people use it and does it make them better or do they? I have actually a Thrown one act out of the set for turning up drunk not because I'm a puritan Neither am I a teetotaller? there is No moral judgement in that sense but I Think it is insulting to other artists And so many other performers if you are not doing what you're supposed to do if I don't Realise that you are stoned or drunk and you're still delivering your lines hitting the mark With impeccable timing then that's fine for me so whether you are using a drug to enhance your performance or to hide from The responsibility of delivering it it doesn't matter to me Unless it actually affects the performance Expecting me to carry you Through the day's work is utter selfishness. That's why I probably threw that person on the state he was in Would have required everybody to dance around His tunes And Take care of his weaknesses and make things better and that's not their responsibility And that's an insult to people who got up at four o'clock put on their makeup And the costume assistant who pressed the clothes and the lighting assistant who carried all of it These hundred and fifty people waiting there for you to get your head sorted just because you got drunk. Come on, man Yeah, that is and I I have heard stories From the music industry that all such substances are actually banned. 

Hmm Like in miscellaneous as you need and I know in mr. Raman's unit. You can't turn up drunk or anything I I don't want to sound like a disciplinarian. Hmm, but if that is the rule, that is the rule, huh? I think there's something beautiful. 

I saw and every time these questions arise I Think of this moment and take that as the answer. Hmm. So when George Harrison passed away There was this so-called concert for George, have you seen it? I think I I think Chris Menzies shot it. 

It was done in this famous Hall in London and There were two sections in it The first half was conducted by Pandit Ravi Shankar and Anushka Shankar and it was an Indian section Many Indian musicians travelled to London rehearsed and performed for an hour and a half many South Indian musicians were also in that Then there was an interval and in the second half all the friends of George Harrison The programming director was Clapton so it was Clapton Jeff Beck. All these guys came together Tom Petty all these guys came and performed in the second half so there is a Companion DVD to that show hmm about the making of this Performance Eric Clapton being the overall creative director. Hmm. 

He goes to check out the rehearsal of the Indian band So he goes to this rehearsal hall right outside. There are 200 pairs of shoes and slippers Because we know musicians don't wear footwear. Yeah Clapton takes off his shoe. 

Huh? And he goes inside and he sits quietly next to Pandit Ravi Shankar and listens to the rehearsal If he had walked in with the shoes, it would still be okay because I am a non-believer like I told you But he's there as a team member. Hmm. He respects the process hmm of All the other artists, huh, and he wants them to know that he is one of them He's not Eric Clapton. 

You know what? I mean? I find it. I found it touching and beautiful Not turning up drunk or stoned is also like that. Hmm. 

It's well within your eyes to do whatever you want to do but if that's Disrespectful to the other performers then don't do it If you are a band of four musicians and all of you are rolling a joint Or having a drink that's fine because it's your decision. Yeah But in a large team environment, it's not right Is that a fair answer? Yeah wonderfully put Yeah, I guess like you're One final question. We are like going fast into AI age and what do you think is the value of human life performance going forward into the future? Oh, I'm confused. I'm scared. 

Why do we like The Last Supper? Why do we like Mona Lisa? Why do we look at the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel and stand there with our mouths open in wonder? Is it because the art is awe-inspiring? It sure is. But is it also because it came from the mind of one person with the skill filtered through their bodies and through their fingertips? And that resulted in this output. Is that the reason you are in awe of things? So my final question in this is, when somebody uses AI to create something, should we still look at the person who gave the prompt? Let's say, Da Vinci and I sit next to each other with the same AI programme and we are trying to figure out if we can make a painting of a woman. 

Will I create something that's better than Mona Lisa? So when you're talking about AI, should that be seen only as a tool? Like how, for example, cinematographers use digital programmes to do colour correction, as opposed to cinematographers using that for many years, analogue systems for many years. Or how cinematographers before them didn't even have colour, but had to work with black and white. Should we see this as one more tool in every artistic endeavour, in different ways, in music, in painting, in architecture, in costume design? Should we see it like that and then judge the output based on that? I didn't see Avatar, because I know they were digitally enhanced performances. 

I had an issue with that. Whereas, I actually appreciated the performance of the lead actor in Planet of the Apes, where it is a real person, whose face was used to create those expressions in those animals. I'm wondering if AI should be treated as that, rather than as a threat. 

The only problem is, Arvind, this means every artist should learn to use the AI programme that is correct for their art. Just paintbrush won't do for a painter anymore, I think. It is just another skill you have to acquire. 

Human value, I don't know. I am so glad that this may take another 50 years to become reality, and I won't be around to break my head over this. For us, until this point, in 5000 years of recorded human history, all our artistic achievements have attained this gigantic space in our hearts, because they all came from real people. 

I think AI becoming subservient to human artists is probably what I am hoping for. Brilliant, Shiva. Thank you so much. 

Thanks for having me. Was it too rambling? No, no, no. We want rambling.
 I don't know if that's a compliment or an acknowledgement. It was very different from my usual 

chat, because it's all usually musical performers and the odd dancer. That's correct, because they are all performers. 

I've been listening to your podcast. I'm so excited that you've added me to that list, because I learnt a lot from listening to all these wonderful people you've had with you. Keep at it, boss. 

Thank you.