ep 23 Sean Bout - Sound engineer to the stars

Join us for a fascinating conversation with veteran Front of House (FOH) Sound Engineer, Sean Bout, as he takes us behind the console of major live performances.

With over 30 years in the industry, Sean shares invaluable insights, starting from his roots in college rock bands to his current role managing sound for top artists in the Indian and Tamil music scene.

In this episode, you'll hear about:

• FOH vs. Monitors: Sean clearly explains the critical differences between the Front of House mix (what the audience hears) and the Monitor mix (what the musicians hear), detailing the demands of handling both roles simultaneously for smaller acts.
• The Preparation Process: Learn about the rigorous week-long prep involved, from vendor selection and console choices to preparing the custom show file for a flawless gig.
• Troubleshooting & Communication: Sean discusses how he quickly manages technical failures on the fly and his stance on stage communication and the use of individual talkback mics.
• Global Gigs: Discover the surprising contrasts between working with well-stocked vendors in India versus the budget and labor challenges faced when touring internationally.
• The Decibel Debate: A crucial discussion on hearing health, maintaining safe sound levels ($\approx 90-95\text{ dB}$) at live shows, and why he's not a fan of the older, excessively loud mixing norms.
• Professionalism & Expectations: Sean offers candid thoughts on what he expects from band members and, most importantly, the need for honesty and transparency from organizers and vendors.

Transcript

Hi Sean, welcome to Stage Matters. Thank you for taking the time out and talking to me. Thank you. 

It is good to be here, Arvind. So, this is a first for me because I have been talking to musicians and theatre artists, but first time a sound engineer, a front of house sound engineer. Oh, okay. 

This is I think very important and lots of people will gain some wisdom from this talk. This is the first time that somebody is interviewing me as a sound engineer. Thank you. 

So, take me back to your beginnings. How did you get into sound? Ah, okay. So, well, we have to start off, I think, I guess in college, school actually. 

In school, in 11th standard, I was part of the band. Then in college, I was in Loyola and we had a band. It was quite a, yeah, we were, I guess we were one of the top bands or, yeah, it used to be a band called Sulphur. 

And I had two of my classmates in the band, that is Leon Ireland and Bobby Baskin. And Bobby used to be with me in school also. So, Bobby and I started off there. 

Then after college, I realised I was not that good a musician and I was not... I was playing guitar. I was playing guitar and I realised that I wasn't cut out to play guitar or rather I wasn't putting enough time and effort. So, then I started managing a band and Moksha had formed at that time. 

So, while managing the band, I kind of got into sound. Of course, I had a lot of musician friends at that time. And of course, you guys were also part of that era, as I should say. 

But spent a lot of time with musicians, around musicians. There were bands of that time, Burn and Nemesis Avenue. I used to spend some time with them. 

And slowly I got into sound. And I did my corporate stint also for about three years. I used to work for an IT company. 

But in my third year, I started working part-time so I could make the transition. And I was working with Paul Jacob in Bodhi Records. By then, I'd started doing some live sound earlier with Moksha and then with Paul's some gigs. 

Yeah, so I guess it started way back. That's 30, 32 years ago. Yeah. Oh, wow. Okay. Is it 30? Sorry.
 Yeah. 80, 90. Sorry. 

35 years ago. So, you didn't like have any, you didn't go to any school to learn or something? It was all on the job? Yeah, it was on the job. And of course, with friends, learning from friends, reading up. 

Yeah, that was how it went off. Yeah. So, on this podcast, we talk about live performance and all the things surrounding it. 

Okay. So, what in your experience, so many years of being front of house for so many big bands, how has your understanding of performance evolved? What it was now and what is it now? What it was before and what it is now? So, I've started off from a very Western background in terms of English rock music. And I adapted and I knew at some point in time, I'm not going to be able to live off English rock music, at least back in the 90s and early 2000s. 

That's how it was. It used to be. And well, now, let's say for the last 20 more, yeah, about 20 years, I've been doing live sound also as a profession. 

I mean, professionally other than the studio work. And okay, let's see, I'll start off my thing as I started doing this, the Indian music scene and Tamil music scene with the singer Karthik. Now, Karthik started his first live shows as such, I think it was Jan 2007 in IIT Sarang. 

So, the thing was, he came out with the idea and he said he did not want to sound like any other Kacheri band. That's in quotes, by the way. And since he was doing Tamil music, he didn't want to sound like the other regular bands or groups that are doing troupes that are doing Tamil songs. 

He wanted it to have a new sound. So, he had got, he had actually got musicians from other backgrounds. I mean, not from a filmy Indian background. 

There was Bennett, he used to play with a rock band called Redlocks. Then I remember Rudy David from who used to be with Thermal and Quarter, he played bass. I can't remember the other musicians at that time. 

And he, so Karthik called me because he knew I had experience with a rock band and doing song with my Moksha experience. And he got me in there because he didn't want to sound like any of the other bands. And the festival that we were doing was the Sarang festival, and it was Lucky Ali and Karthik, I mean, separate acts. 

And, well, it kind of turned out to be quite a good gig. I wasn't as experienced with the music. But then the good thing was he didn't want it to sound the way it normally sounds. 

So yeah, I think there was a freshness that came to the whole sound and that show turned out to be quite a big hit. Okay, great. What is your preparation process, assuming you have a big show coming up as a sound engineer, as the sound engineer for a band? Okay, so prep usually starts at least a week in advance. 

First, we need to get in touch with the vendors. So fortunately for me, I mean, I've been blessed to have some of the top artists who I work with. So we kind of get the tech that we want. 

We also depending on who the artist is, we also get to choose the vendors, which is, yeah, which is a big blessing. So once the vendor is finalised, I'm in touch with the vendor, we in touch with whoever supplying the backline, I make sure we're getting all the equipment that the musicians are comfortable with. Then the next is I need to know what console I'm getting. 

And once I know which console is coming, there's a show file that needs to be prepped. But it's with working with the musicians, because usually these percussionists, they never are sure what they're going to bring. Last minute, they'll say, I have one more, I have one more, one duff, I have one extra timbale, I have this other pad or something. 

So yeah, that's always unknown. But now I've kind of worked with I've kind of worked with pretty much most of the A level musicians. So I kind of know them and they know me. 

So yeah, so I prepare my show file, then go to the gig, first thing is load up show file. Then if I'm doing monitors, and front of house, I end up going to check. Sorry, I'm just breaking for the uninitiated listeners. 

Can you tell what's the difference between monitor engineer and front of house? Okay, so the front of house engineer, usually known as FOH engineer, takes care of what the audience hears. So it's strictly only what the audience are hearing. Now, no matter how many musicians are there, each musician and none of the musicians are going to hear what the audience is hearing. 

So that is what the FOH engineer takes care of. Then there's a monitor engineer. And contrary to what a lot of people say, there's no such thing as MOH, just a monitor engineer, there's no monitor of house or anything. 

So what a monitor engineer does is he takes care, he or she takes care of the musicians mixes. So each musician usually hears a completely different mix from each other, they have their own preferences. Invariably, they want to hear a little more of themselves and the others. 

So that's what the monitor engineer takes care of. Sometimes I do shows of front of house and monitors, same from the front of house console. So I try to not do shows which have more than about eight, nine musicians, then it gets too hectic to do both monitors and front of house. 

So if there are maybe eight maximum nine musicians, then I would say, Okay, I can handle it. Otherwise, I say, no, please get another monitor engineer. So that's what monitor and front of houses, the engineer rules, then. 

So, yeah, so I come to the venue. First thing is I load up my show file, make sure that the show file is loaded. Then I go to so this usually happens like in the morning of morning or afternoon, whenever. 

So here, this is where it comes to play who the vendor is. Because once you have a working relationship with a vendor and a vendor says, Yeah, you can come at this time, I'll have everything ready. Because usually in our tech writers, we kind of tell them we would like to come once everything is patched and checked. 

So usually the vendors will tell us okay, by this time it is back. Usually the vendors, the sound vendors are on time, it's always a stage that is not ready. So when we go we find that some LED work or some lights or some decoration work is still going on. 

And that's what kind of slows things down. But then I load my show file, I go to check in years because most people right now are using in years. So I go to the in your transmitters and receivers, go through a thorough check and see that they are set according to what I expect. 

I usually spec it earlier. But even though I expect it earlier, I always try to go and check and see if it's okay. And then we do line check. 

Sound checks usually because musicians are good don't actually take long. So it's a line check. And maybe we can just get away with doing just a small jam or one song or something. 

And then it's break to the show and hope everything works at showtime. So what's your apart from the professional your technical work in the on the day of the show, you have any kind of personal things that you like, amount of rest or what do you eat or any kind of? I do drink alcohol, but usually day before the show, I don't overdo it. So I'm a little careful on that. 

Because I have a long day ahead. I usually don't eat breakfast. Regular I mean, in my regular lifestyle, I don't have breakfast. 

It's dinner and lunch. But on show days, I try to get breakfast because I know that the sound engineers are the guys who don't get a break. Because everybody else can go in between but there's people on constantly coming on stage checking things. 

So we don't get a break. So I usually have breakfast on gig days. Then it's the inevitable weight of when they tell us okay, you can come. 

That's about it. Okay. So like when you're doing a show, at some time, something many things can go wrong something suddenly a channel stops working or power goes off. 

How do you deal with these? Can you like throw some anecdotes about situations that you faced? Well, problems happen all the time. We hope I always pre before every show. And that prayer is that everything works out. 

I don't have too much trouble. Fortunately, for me, I've rarely had really big issues. But I think the important thing is on how to troubleshoot and to know when you can fix the problem. 

And when you have to move on to an alternate situation. When you have to tell the artist, buddy, this is what the scene is, we have to manage this gig this way. And if it's possible that I 

can change it and fix it, I will let you know when it's done. 

But otherwise, take it like it's not going to happen. So things, most things we can fix. And with the experience that I have, I kind of know this is what the problem is. 

It's a cable problem. It's a DI problem. It's a jack problem. 

So we can tell somebody to sort it out immediately. Over the last few years, we've always had constant communication with the stage and both FH positions and monitors. There is one artist Andrea who I mostly do monitors for other bands I do front of house. 

Andrea's band if it's a small band, I mean small venue and like indo venue or something, then I do FOH and monitors. Most other bands I do FOH or FOH and monitors. So some of the bands that I've worked with from the time of Karthik, it used to be FOH and monitors. 

Then I've been working a long time with Alaps band, Alapraju band. That's also been FOH and monitors. I've done a gig where I've done only monitors because it was elsewhere, I think Malaysia or something. 

And it was some big, big fat Indian wedding there. And they wanted their engineer to take care of the front of house. So I did monitors for that. 

Because the bands are more comfortable, usually, invariably, they're more worried about what they are hearing and they are comfortable. Because if they aren't comfortable, then you don't get a good show. So then with Makkah, that's Rahul, Nambiar, Ranjith and Alap. 

It's a small band, it's only a six piece band. So I do both monitors and front of house. Then there's Sean Roldan. 

Sean Roldan and Friends, which is his indie music, I do front of house and monitors, because that's just a four piece band. Then there's another actor, which is Sean Roldan live, which is his film music. In that I usually do only front of house. 

We have a separate monitor engineer. And as I said, Andrea mostly monitors. But if it's a small venue, and it's in Chennai or whatever, I was doing front of house and monitors. 

So things can go wrong. And quicker we troubleshoot, the better. I said there's communication always between stage and the mix position. 

We usually have a small speaker. And nowadays, something that I don't approve or like actually is every musician has one talkback microphone. And I somehow don't dig that. 

Because it creates a lot of confusion. So basically, that is regarding to do with practise or lack of practise. But that's another can of worms. 

But when I'm doing FOH, I will have a speaker, and I will keep a separate mic on stage, which if 

anybody needs to communicate with me, they will go to that mic. And I usually don't take any of the other talkbacks, because I can't be distracted by that and take away from what the audience is hearing. Okay. 

So you've done shows all over the world. Okay, many places. Yeah. 

So how different is your experience of working in other places as opposed to in India? Oh, India is great. In spite of all our third world country labels. In India, we, we have some of the really good equipment, we get we are stocked up as in our vendors are capable of providing the top of the line in equipment. 

So that way, India is great. We usually have problems when we go out of the country. But saying that this problem doesn't apply to Singapore and Malaysia. 

Because they also quite well stocked up and the Tamil or the Indian diaspora is really huge there. But when we go to the West, America, you have been to America, UK, I've been to places that I never thought in my life I would go to like Bosnia and Herzegovina, Kyrgyzstan, these are places that I never thought I'll ever be there. Visit. 

Now these kind of places. Most of these shows are run by Indian promoters. And labour there is usually quite expensive. 

Everything is expensive there. So they have this kind of mindset, our Indian band, they'll manage with what is available. And so yeah, we usually end up having a bit of tug of war trying to get equipment. 

We do compromise. I mean, we make a lot of compromises. But yeah, we usually don't get they say they have this, why don't you manage with this? If it's manageable, we will manage. 

But if it's not, we tell them no, we need at least these things. So like, do like in India, usually you go to a venue and rock up and the drum kit is already set up and all that. Do you have that even in or does the band have to do that themselves? Yeah, as I explained, labour is a issue over there. 

But that being said, I had gone with Yovan Shankar Raja in 2019 to Chicago. And we set up everything, we kind of did a sound check. And then we went off, they cleared the entire stage, because their programme required this stage. 

Then we came back at, I think, nine o'clock in the night or something. But there was an excellent crew over there, which strangely I had found and recommended to them. So in like half an hour, the stage was set up, I mean, drums were rigged, everything was rigged up. 

And in like 15 minutes, we did a line check. And then I think 45 minutes to one hour, the show started. So that is a really good crew. 

And but there are other places where we will have to I, I've been to, I've been to the UK. And in 

London, that was a problem, not enough labour. So everything was super slow. 

One guy was setting up everything. Australia was a similar situation. They don't have too much labour. 

So it's kind of there, but we go and end up helping them. There are situations where nothing is set up, and we have to get things moving. Otherwise, I don't know when things start. 

So I do believe that if somebody is not there to do, somebody who's supposed to be there is not there to do, then I have to get it going by doing it myself. Yeah, that's, Okay, this is super interesting, because I'm sure many of the listeners would think that it would be much better. Oh, no, no, no, it's not. 

It's not. So I've been asking all my previous guests who have been mostly performers and musicians, what they expect from people like organisers and this thing. So I'm going to turn that back and ask you, what do you expect from the band? From the band? From the band, yes. 

From the musicians. In terms of professionalism and whatever. I told you, I've been in this industry for a long time now. 

So I usually work with people who are very experienced. They know their shit. And so I don't have to really worry about the musicians or such. 

It's only now and then when there's somebody who I don't know, and who does not know me, and a little green, we don't really have problems. So I try to adjust and figure out what is going on. And if I see an issue in between there, I try to tell them, this could be an issue. 

And yeah, and we kind of move with it. Okay. So and okay, let's, what about an organiser? What do you expect from an organiser? I expect honesty. 

That's a big thing. If an organiser or a vendor says, they're going to give me this, I expect those things. If you cannot give me those things that I've asked for, and you have provided alternatives, I expect to see those alternatives. 

I can work with those alternatives. But you want prior communication. Yes, I just need honesty. 

I'm sorry, we don't have this. This is all we can give you. Can you manage with this? Okay, I will manage with this. 

But then I don't like to go to a venue and find out that they said they're going to give this and they're giving something else. So yeah, that is one thing from an organiser or from a vendor. So there's a saying that sound engineer can't be late. 

It's kind of true, because usually when the sound engineer goes, there's always something happening still in terms of setup. And yeah, so but if the organisers give us a time, we would like some form of the programme to run, the schedule to run, some form of the programme 

running according to schedule. Yeah, and it would be great if there's some water and some mild snacks for us, especially outdoor gigs. 

Usually it's all taken care of. Yeah, so that's pretty much transparency and honesty. Okay. 

I talked to performers about improvisation on the show. How much does improvisation play a role in your work? Okay, there is a certain amount of improvisation that has to happen because you kind of check the vibe and see how the people are. And you check their energy. 

And there are certain changes that you make in your mix, depending on that energy. It's kind of balancing the dynamics of the whole mix, as well as sometimes balancing the dynamics of certain instruments. And getting the vibe. 

I'm not talking about this current meaning of vibe, but getting the whole vibe as in vibrations of the audience. And if I'm doing monitors, then on stage of the vibe of the band at that time, and the music and the song that is happening and the particular musicians. So there is a certain level of improvisation happening. 

Since you've talked about the audience, I know that bands feed off audiences and they can make or break the show. Does that happen to you as a sound engineer as well? Are you affected by the audience at all? Sometimes very affected by the audience because the audience are too loud and the PA is not enough. So I usually have, say, if I'm in the centre of a 10 by 10 or 12 by 12 box, and there are people screaming all around me, then it gets kind of difficult. 

So I have to kind of wing it. Because it's difficult to hear the PA sometimes. I usually don't mix very loud. 

In terms, I try to maintain that 90, 95, maybe somewhere it may peak to 100. Can you explain that in detail? That's basically decibel levels. There are certain decibel levels which are safe, and constant exposure to loud sound is not healthy. 

So let's see. Dolby, I think they specify about 85 dB in your theatre, you're supposed to, that's the level that you're supposed to follow. Live events, depending on the place, they have like 95. 

Maybe you can peak, that's a momentary peak can go up to 100. That means not too long. But overall, your average level should be about, shouldn't exceed 90. 

To 95. Because that's a safe listening level. I try to maintain that. 

So audiences can get much louder. In those situations, sometimes I have to drive to slightly unhealthy levels, but I don't keep it at that for too long. Okay. 

Is it like kind of the norm in India like to mix very loud? Yes, it used to be. But now, I think in the last 15 to 20 years, there's been a lot of live shows happening. So there's a certain amount of maturity that we've reached, or at least I would say the older engineers. 

I've had friends who've suffered from tinnitus in their 30s itself. And it can be a very depressing thing for them. Psychologically, I am saying, and I do not want people to go through that. And I have, I have been through like three, four days of tinnitus, and it is not a pleasing thing. And so I think, but there are still a lot of people who, there are quite a few young engineers who think it needs to constantly be loud. 

Yeah, I do not do that. So when you have tinnitus, you have a constant ringing sound. Yeah. 

So tinnitus is you will hear a high frequency sound constantly in your ears. So I went for an extreme show, the English rock band extreme show in Malaysia. And I, the show started off, it was loud, I had earplugs. 

But then like two songs down, I said, Oh, man, I cannot be listening to them. With earplugs, this is extreme. And so I, I took off my earplugs. 

And I was like, right in front, okay, it was really loud. Okay. And then I remember for the next three, three, four days or something, I had tinnitus. 

And then I said, I'm not going to listen to any show that is too loud without my earplugs. So do you take any other specific steps to protect your hearing since you're doing this? I do not listen to very loud music. Even when I'm working in the studio, we don't listen to very loud music. 

My mom used to have some hearing issues. So I'm very careful, extra careful about what goes into my ear, including sound liquids. Yeah, so I don't, when I'm listening to headphones also, if I have to listen to something loud, it's for a very short period of time, just to check out something. 

And, but otherwise, I listen to less than or just normal listening volume. I don't know what normal listening, comfortable listening volume. Okay, so that's it. 

But earplugs, earplugs, if I'm going to a show to listen to a show, I usually take earplugs. Don't always use it depending on how loud the show is. But if I feel. 

But you never use it while mixing? Earplugs? No. I do a lot of shows. I used to do a lot of shows in Lady Arnold Auditorium. 

And there they tell me, and we will give you one clear comm. Clear comm is a communication between backstage and wherever. And I tell them, you do realise I'm mixing a show, I cannot have be wearing clear comms and listening. 

So no, I don't, I have to be listening. Of course, when I'm doing monitors, I'm all I've got earphones plugged in. Yeah. 

So obviously, because you don't listen to the house sound. Yeah. So but otherwise, no, I don't use earplugs. 

Have you had to continuing on the audience theme? Yeah. Have you ever had to deal with like, rowdy audiences coming? Oh, yeah, college shows. There's been a show where I've just muted the PA. 

And I've told because people come in towards the sound console, and they push. And things are going out of balance and moving things around, then I've, on two occasions, I've muted the PA. And I'm told, if you guys don't move, there's no sound that's going to come out of the PA, you guys have to move out till then, there's no sound going to come out. 

Okay. But it's never gotten beyond that? No. No, not really.
 I get the message. Drums are too loud. From the audience. From the audience. Drums are too loud. We can't hear the vocal. 

Usually, it's because, again, coming from the different background. When we started, I mean, when I started off with Karthik, Karthik didn't want it to sound like vocals up there, everything else down there. He wanted it to sound like a rock band. 

Now, most of the artists that I work with, that is the feel that they all want. They don't want it replicated as in the recording. They want it to be a live performance. 

I think pretty much most, if not all of the bands that I work with, maybe give maybe one or two bands, they are all live and don't use tracks. So they want the live feel of the band coming through. But there are a lot of people in the audience who come expecting to hear it as the record was made. 

And then they think, oh, the voice has to be up there and everything else has to be down there. So do you think audiences have a responsibility and a role to play? It's my responsibility to make the audience have a good time and enjoy their show. Audience's responsibility is enjoy the show, don't beat up the place. 

That's about it. They've come to have a good time, have a good time. That's it. 

Don't come and tell the engineer, do this. There will always be somebody who doesn't like anything that anybody does. Somebody will have a problem with something. 

You can be the best person on earth. Somebody will have a problem because you're the best person on earth. So you cannot satisfy everybody. 

You have to take the larger audience into perspective, their mindset, and make sure that everybody's having a good time. At least 90% of them are having a good time. Musicians are the biggest critics. 

You know that. Any show musicians, I mean, we musicians, if I consider myself a musician, we go to a show, we are the ones to criticise the sound and the drum sound, the guitar sound, everything. We are the ones who are. 

That's one thing I try not to do. I try never to interfere with the engineer. Unless it's something like really drastic and I realise that the engineer does not know what he... This is you as an audience you're talking about? When I go as an audience, if there's something that I know this is really not happening and I've given three, four songs for the engineer to fix and he doesn't fix, then I would go and I would suggest. 

But otherwise I don't interfere with the engineer. And when people come and tell me, hey man, this is not... I say, you please go and talk to the engineer or don't talk to the engineer. That's his prerogative on how he's doing it. 

Since you brought up the topic of backing tracks, what's your opinion on using backing tracks or doing plus one or even using a click track? I'm okay with click track because right now a lot of... It's not just the whole music thing. People are not coming just to hear music. They're coming to witness a show experience. 

So there's a lot of lighting and there's graphics that's going on. So I'm okay with the idea of a click track. I told you very few bands actually have tracks playing. 

And from my main artists, I think there's only probably one band that uses track and that is only for certain segments that they use tracks. But otherwise it's mostly click. And the reason... I'm actually okay with click because it's not from back when we first started listening to music in the 80s and 90s where we could accept everything. 

Everything was as it was. We have become conditioned to this auto tune and everything needs to be in perfect pitch. Everything needs to be tight on tempo. 

So I think that has kind of got into me. So I like things to be tight to a certain extent. Also there's a thing of not too much practise happening. 

So when everybody kind of follows a click, I kind of believe that everybody is following the click. So everybody when they come and meet again, that click is what is keeping everybody together. So click is okay. 

I'm not too big a fan of tracks. What about like plus one? That happens. Fortunately, I haven't done... my bands have gone with plus one. 

But doing shows in the auditorium in Lady Andal auditorium, I have done a couple of shows where the artists have come with and done plus one. It's what it is. So what is the most challenging aspect of your job? And what is an aspect you don't particularly like? I do like to be prepared, as I told you. 

So when I come for a gig and I find out something new and something, it's like we have five singers. Then I remember one big, big artist show I was doing in Malaysia. And on the day of the soundcheck, I think after soundcheck or something, they came and said, there will be a 25 piece choir coming in. 

I said, What? Yeah, there's a 25 piece. It's a local choir, some sponsorship, this thing, that thing. They have to be part of it. 

I said, in soundcheck? No, there's no soundcheck for them. They will come tomorrow and before the show, and they will check. So those are things that I dislike severely, for not using the word hate. 

Yeah, those kind of things. I just like to know, I just like to be in the know and prepared for things. I don't like things to be like, suddenly thrown on. 

Yeah. Okay, let's talk about very important thing, money. We know that this profession is uncertain. 

And it's has for even for performers, for sound engineers, it's difficult to make, like good money. Yeah. So can you talk about your experience with money over your this thing? How have you navigated it? What, what advice would you have for future people getting into it as to how to manage and navigate this whole uncertain environment? Yes, so I think I'm considered now as a senior engineer. 

So I have a rate. I know that there will always be somebody who will do it for lesser. And I know that there are budget constraints. 

There's very little loyalty in the industry, which I'm okay with it. But I have to say that I'm fortunate that I've been working with some artists for a really long time, which is, which is a blessing, I think. When you start off money is not great. 

But then now I know that people are starting off, who are charging, who charge, or tell me that they charge almost as much as I charge. And so I really don't know where that is going. Some of the artists, they don't take into consideration the experience that we have. 

And I have come across fresh engineers or somebody just thrown in to do a job, and to have messed up things. And I've heard them complain about the equipment after that, not trying to kind of get over the situation, which is all okay. I think it's part of the learning process. 

But if you're in it to make money, I think you should do an MBA. Because I was just thinking recently, you do a corporate job, you get promotions, and you move up. And salaries increase. 

In this, no, it's a very slow growth. Growth is very slow. And unless you have a regular band, which is performing regularly, you don't have a regular stream of income. 

I'm fortunate I have studio to a studio work also happening. And yeah, it's not, it's not, you're 

not in it for the money. It's not for the faint hearted. 

It is not. Absolutely not. And especially if you're in love with a girl and you're going to get married and you're going to do this. 

Oh, man, good luck. We all know that. Is it like a stressful job at times? Physically and mentally? Physically, yes. 

There have been times when we're doing gigs, I mean, at least set up and you know, it can get very hot. And then you feel it. My last gig with one of my big artists was very stressful, because one of the monitor console did not work. 

And I had to just tell them that this is what it is. There's no in-ears, you're going to hear the front of house, you're not going to hear your own mix. So you'll have to manage. 

And then while the show started, then slowly I was coordinating with the front of house engineer. And slowly he started creating mixes for a few of the artists on stage. So that was a very stressful situation. 

But sometimes the solution to a problem is accepting there's no solution. So the sooner you, I believe every problem has a solution, it's only a matter of how much time it takes to find that solution. So in a situation like this, I knew there was no solution. 

I had to accept that there's no solution. And we had to move on. So I had to the artists, this is it, it's not going to work, the console is not working. 

Guys, I'm sorry, but you have to deal with the situation. It is like this. It can be very stressful. 

And that's extreme, when everything, the entire console was not working. But there are other situations where something is not working. And what does not help is when the musician on stage also gets stressed about it and starts throwing a tantrum, then it doesn't help anybody. 

If I know that there's a problem, and I tell the musician, this is it. And then if he doesn't accept that this is the situation, and he's kind of trying to throw attitude and a tantrum, then it becomes a bigger problem. But kind of most musicians, as I told you, I work with kind of senior musicians. 

So they've all been there, done that. And they know, okay, this is a problem. And I'm telling them, this is the problem. 

They're okay, okay, to accept that. Okay, we need to move on to the next step. And just carry on with how it is. 

So do you like have any kind of workout, meditate, something like that to deal with, like, the pressures of the job? I barely work out. Meditate, no, I usually just say a prayer before I am quite Christian that way. And yeah, I know there's somebody taking control. 

And when I can't control, I leave it up to him to take control over the situation. Great. You do both studio work as well as live work. 

Yeah. What are the differences? What do you like and dislike about each? Studio work is so much more at ease, because everything is under control. I mean, definitely a controlled environment. 

Everything is from the mics, and you can stop a take and redo things. In the live situation, there are too many factors that come into play from the environment to the weather and acoustics of the room, to cables, power, everything is variable in the live situation. We're used to that and know that this is the situation. 

Invariably, when there is an issue, we kind of with experience, we kind of know. Yeah, this is what the problem is or could be. And we kind of know how to deal with it immediately. 

And do you have a preference in terms of what do you like doing studio or live? I like live because you're done with the show. Studio work is, yeah, it keeps on dragging. And we both know advertising work how it is. 

We need it by 3pm. It has to go for telecast at 3pm. But next day is also available. Next day is also available. It's only stress. It's only to kind of stress us out. 

But we know how it is. We try to, in terms of studio, we try to meet deadlines. Most often we do meet deadlines. 

But then we know after that it will come back again. In a live situation, this is it. Show has to start, show has to end. 

So, we are in this world today, which is like fully digital, everyone is into 15-second reels. We have AI coming and taking over jobs like composing sometimes. Yeah. 

What do you think is going to be the value of human life performance going forward in the future? I think it's going to be, this performance value is going to remain for quite some time. People are absorbed, self-absorbed with their digital devices. But still, until they are like fully into this virtual reality scene, there will be live performances. 

I'm talking about virtual reality scene, when your eyes are shut in some glasses and you don't even know what's happening around you. Until that happens, there will be live performances, because people will still need. There's nothing, I mean, I've heard about the ABBA show that's happening right now in UK. 

And from, I mean, some of my musicians and my artists went and saw the show. And he's a very technologically, I mean, savvy guy. And he says that he could not believe that those were holograms. 

It was holograms of the four ABBA members, and it was a performance like that. So, unless it's some technology like that, but then that again is a fixed show. It's running like a musical. 

There's no interaction with the crowd. As long as people have interaction, there will be a performance, a live performance will remain. To see people perform and to interact with them and be part of that performance, I think there will be. 

Brilliant. Do you use AI tools for any mixing purpose? Or in your live sound? I haven't used it as yet. Recently at a gig, I was doing monitors and another engineer, Toby, was doing front of house. 

And he said, there's a plugin that takes care of feedback. And we tried it. Because usually, this particular artist of mine doesn't come for a sound check. 

So I ended up checking the microphone. And so I was standing on stage and checking the microphone. And he was telling me, see, this is what it's doing. 

So he didn't end up using it, because it kind of sucks off too much of tone. But yeah, that's about as much. I like to use things, do things a little manually. 

So that when something goes wrong, I know what can be done. AI, I guess, we won't know what's happening exactly to fix in case something needs fixing. Brilliant. 

We'll wrap up shortly. Just one last question. If you have to say, what is the essence of performance in one philosophy or a line? What would it be? Just live. 

This energy from a live performance, you don't get unless somebody is playing live. That's, that's the whole, it's live. That's what it is. 

There's no energy that will, that a track or anything can give you compared to live. Brilliant, Sean. This has been very informative, I think, for lots of people. 

So I hope so for me also. So hopefully we'll be working together. Yes. Looking forward to it. Thanks. Good luck.
 Thank you. Good luck.