ep. 22 Sahib Singh - The player and the manager

Join us on Stage Matters as we sit down with Sahib Singh, the bandleader and frontman of the instrumental powerhouse Jatayu. In this candid conversation, Saib details his 15-year evolution in performance, starting with a hilariously accidental debut simply to bunk class .

Sahib takes us beyond the notes, discussing how he conquered stage fright by building a bold onstage persona and the profound shift from focusing on technical perfection to achieving internal freedom while playing. Learn about:

• The Spiritual Performance: Sahib's belief that a great live show is an act of collective consciousness, where the band and audience achieve a "hive mind" or "singularity."
• The Musician's Mental Space: Why the biggest challenge in the Indian music scene is not skill, but ensuring the artist is mentally comfortable to perform at their best, and how he shields his bandmates from logistical stress.
• Gear & Textures: His philosophy on using effects not for solos, but to create unique sonic textures and rhythm.
• The Show Must Go On: How a chaotic mistake—like the drums falling apart mid-song—can lead to the most magical, unforgettable moments of pure improvisation.
• The Independent Grind: The reality of being an independent artist, where success comes from problem-solving and being completely responsible for every aspect of the band's career.

This episode is a must-listen for anyone interested in the psychology, spirituality, and business of live performance.

Transcript

Hi Saib, welcome to Stage Matters. Thank you for taking time off to talk to me. Of course, thank you for having me. 

So what drew you into performance? How did it begin for you? For me, it's actually a funny story. I was in school and I just wanted to bunk class. Okay. 

And at this time in my life, I had learned the guitar a little bit, just a few chords I knew. So this great friend of mine, Apoorv, people know him as Lala right now. He's moved to Bombay and he plays for a lot of people. 

He plays for Mali. Okay. So I went to school with him in Lady Andal. 

And then one day I just wanted to bunk school. And there was a school van leaving for cultural to a girl's school, to UWATS. Okay. 

So I just wanted to bunk and be in a girl's school, you know. So I went, I got on the van and Apoorv's band had ditched him for a football tournament. There was some football match. 

So his whole band had ditched him for that cultural competition. So he was the only one there. So he looks at me, he's like, Hey, you know how to play the guitar. 

I'm going to show you a few chords. All you need to do is we'll borrow a guitar from someone there. We'll get it. 

All you need to do is sit on stage. And I didn't, the guitar we got didn't even have a strap. So I had to pull up a chair and then sit on stage. 

So basically on the way to the school, he teaches me the chords is the chords of comfortably numb. And, and he was like, it's just the main verse, the chorus and all that. He like, don't worry, I'll play and I'll sing it just for when I'm soloing, I need you to back me up. 

So he taught me those chords. I somewhat figured it out. And of course I'm shitting my pants before getting on stage the first time. 

And I'm not even trained. Okay. I've just know a few chords. 

So I get on stage, we borrow somebody's guitar, no strap, I'm sitting in the corner, just scared shitless, my hands are shivering on stage. And Apoor comes, he plays, he sings, I back him up, he solos. Of course, we don't win because we're not a full band, but he won best guitarist. 

So I think that really sparked something in me. I've always, I've always been an introvert. I don't talk to people too much. 

And stage fright has also always been there. But I think that moment sort of switched something in my head and made me realise like, whoa, this felt good. You know, I want more of this. 

And I think that started this journey of performance. So how has your understanding of performance evolved from then till now? Whoa, that's a huge journey. It's like 15 years of experience in the field. 

I would I would say it's taken a full circle moment, where I've thought deeply about, I need to work on certain things, I need to be great as a musician. For a long time, I thought I just need to work on my craft on my instrument. But performance is not only that, you know, performance has a lot of other layers in it. 

We as musicians get stuck with just our instruments and being correct and all of that with. So for a long time, I thought it was that. But off late, over the last four or five years, I've realised that there's more to it. 

Me personally, internally, and of course, what we offer the audience, there are two separate things happening there. One is internally, I would like to be as free as possible. I don't want to think about what I'm doing. 

That is true freedom for me. And then as an audience, I give them something to relate to because as pure musicians, not everybody is going to come as a musician and watch, you know, so you got to give them something to relate to, whether it's just as simple as nodding your head to the beat you're playing, you know, that is more than enough to just give them a visual cue as to what is happening, what you're feeling as a musician on stage. So things like that body movement, it's just getting the crowd more involved with you. 

That's something I've learned. Okay. Can you take me through your preparation process, assuming you have a gig coming up, like, say, the day after tomorrow? It depends on who I'm playing. 

I mean, what the gig is. With Jatayu, for example, I lead the band. I'm also the front man. 

I talk to the crowd. And so I'm thinking of all of those things. Where are we playing? Who are we playing to? What is the set list? How should I organise the songs? What should I say on stage? So these are things that I'm thinking of for a Jatayu set. 

And again, what is like, what is the festival? Are we playing a festival? Are we playing a club gig? Which city are we playing in? Which country are we playing in? So a lot of these things are going on in my head, because I really need the crowd to be engaged in what we do. And with us, it's easier because it's instrumental music. So it's even I say that on stage as well. 

I tell the crowd that, you know, I know language is a barrier, especially when we're travelling, reunion, Japan, wherever, Taiwan, where English is not their first language. I tell them, I know 

language is a barrier. But we use music to communicate with you guys. 

So you know, I hope you guys can understand us better through our music. So no matter what the gig is, I'm trying to see how I can really get the crowd immersed in what we're trying to give them as an experience. So I'm mostly thinking of that, whether it's Jatayu, or whether it's Tamil Jazz Collective, or whether it's some other session gig that I'm doing. 

If it's just a session gig, then I'm more focused on my parts and the song and what is required of me in this project. So again, it varies from project to project. But the end goal, I think, is mostly to just have a more immersive experience for the audience. 

Okay, wonderful. What about like, your personal physical preparation? Do you have any such thing? Do you have some routine? Also, do you have something that you don't eat? You don't drink before a show? No, there are no such strict rules as such. I will not eat too much. 

Me being a diabetic, I get scared that I might get low sugar or something on stage. So I just make sure I eat a little bit something so that my energy is good on stage. That's all I need to be like energetic on stage. 

So eating or drinking wise, there's no strict rules as such. Personally, again, it depends. It's more about a mind space rather than technique, because I believe whatever I've practised, it will come out. 

There's no point of me practising something just before a gig. I feel like there's no point in it. If I practise it enough, I trust myself. 

I trust my muscle memory to bring it out well. For me, on the performance is more about mental space is how I am feeling mentally, what I can do to make sure I'm comfortable mentally. And this is an aspect that I've realised not too many people in India do. 

I'm talking about organisers and venues and events, they need to really understand that an artist needs to be comfortable when they're getting on stage, you know, and in India, I don't really get that. But when we stepped out of India, oh man, the love and just how easy they made it for us. Our shows have been a lot more better internationally, because we felt more comfortable on stage. 

That's a very important aspect, which people in India really struggle to understand. They just put together a stage, they're like, that's your stage go perform, I'm paying you. You know, yeah, give me a performance. 

But they don't understand that you want a good performance, you really have to make sure the artist's headspace is correct. So me as a bandleader in Jatayu, I make sure my musicians have that. So I shield them from the whatever logistics or business or all of that. 

So for me, personally, it's about creating that division in my head. Okay, okay, I have these 

things I need to make sure are done. I make sure that it's done and my musicians on stage are comfortable. 

And then about me getting comfortable on stage as an artist and musician. That is mostly what I think about and prepare for to get on stage, even if you're playing with a group. I mean, if it's with Jatayu, I already know them, I've been playing for years. 

But when we collaborate, we get in a horn section or we get in some other collaborative artists, I get everybody together. And I'm always I just get everybody on the same page to make sure they're comfortable, get tell them that I'm grateful for them to the I'm always grateful for the people I play with, you know, so I make sure they know that and everybody's on the same page, everybody's comfortable. That way, I can really enjoy myself and get the best out of whoever I'm playing with. 

Okay, brilliant. A couple of things you touched upon, we will bring it back later. But before that, what is your relationship with gear? You're asking the right questions. 

That is also a journey. I started off, of course, Pink Floyd, The Doors, Hendrix, initial Mark Knopfler, Die Straits, these are initial influences. Pearl Jam that used a lot of effects, you know, in their music, especially Pink Floyd, David Gilmour. 

I have always experimented with sound. Always. I never had a pedal board of my own. 

I borrowed it when I was in college, tried some effects, messed around with effects, tried something on stage. Of course, sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't work. But that's the process, you know, so I've always, always used gear to evolve my sound. 

And again, it's a trial and error method that I always use, which works best for me. So any sound that I'm looking for, anything, I will make sure I can try it out first, fuck around with it a little bit, see if I'm liking it, if I'm not liking it. If I'm not liking it, I sell that piece of gear, get something new. 

And now I've settled on something that I've been using for the last four, five years. But it just a couple of days ago, I've been looking at some upgrades. But it's a very integral part of Yes, 100%. 

For me, at least, effects really give me versatility and give me choice of exploring sonic, what do you say, landscapes, especially because I'm not, when it comes to guitar, especially I'm not the usual guitar player, I don't like to, what do you say, solo or play like, you know, guitar solos or guitar lead heavy things. I don't enjoy doing that. I like creating textures and rhythm sections and stuff like that. 

So for that, I think gear and sound is very important for me. I actually noticed that in your playing also. Yeah, I'm more of a rhythm, rhythm player, I lock in, I like to groove and then I like to create some ambience. 

Okay. So can you take me through your soundcheck process? What is it you're looking for? What is it you're trying to hear? How important is it? Soundcheck, there are a couple of elements. To start off with, it's my sound. 

If I get the amp that I've asked for, that's it. I don't need anything else. I'm good. 

I know what settings to tweak it. Chuck, chuck, one, two, three, check, check my tones. I'm good. 

If I don't get the amp that I've asked for, then there's a little bit of tweaking. In India, I don't even get amps a lot of times. They'll be like, go direct, what is it? It's a guitar. 

They don't understand. Anyway, you're wearing in-ears or something. Sorry? You guys wear in- ears? No, no in-ears. 

We are very organic. We don't like in-ears. We like to feel the space. 

So yeah, with engineers, there's always a battle with sound engineers and musicians, which I'm not hating on engineers, but it's two perspectives. They have a job to do, which they need to do cleanly. We have a job to do, which we need to do cleanly. 

Yeah. So there is going to be a battle there, because what we want is not what they always like. But a lot of people in India don't understand that we can always come to a result. 

We need to communicate and come to a solution together to make both of us feel happy. So coming to soundcheck. Sorry, got sidetracked. 

Like I said, my sound, if my sound is good, making sure everybody has their sound, then do one together. Make sure everybody can hear each other. And that's it. 

We always keep our soundchecks very quick, very clean. Not like a long elaborate. No, that's why we have wedges. 

Initially, we don't ask for anything on wedges. We do a full band run through without. And then from there, we build like, what can't you hear? Let's just get that. 

One by one, ask everybody, what can't you hear? Don't unnecessarily ask for everything. And the stage gets too loud. And again, the sound engineer is going to complain, oh, stage is too loud. 

Reduce amp volume. We're like, no, I want my amp volume to be where it is. But we will tweak the monitor sound based on that. 

Okay, brilliant. Beyond the skill and the technique and like artists, of course, the means of communication. But do you think in performance, there is something beyond all that and more profound and spiritual, etc, etc? 100%. 

This, this is why I do this. This is why we do this, you know. I feel in most cases, we can't explain what it is. 

But what do you say it's a gathering of people. And during a live performance, one is you're truly in that moment. Like I said, initially, I struggled a lot. 

Also being the manager, bandleader or whatever, while performing, I'm thinking of other aspects. So I struggled with that. But now I've come to a place where I can really split the two. 

So if I'm performing, I'm in that moment. So that is one really important aspect that is very liberating to be because nowadays, it's very hard for anybody to be in that moment, you're either thinking of something you need to do or something you've done. You're never in that second, you know. 

So that is a more personal thing for me of just being in the moment. It's like meditation. But apart from that, when you connect with the right audience, right, that's when everybody is in sync. 

We're at the same level, same vibration, you can call it. And I feel that is what as humans, we are more social beings. So we look for that connectivity with another human being. 

When there are so many human beings come together, and we are all vibrating at the same level. I feel that it's sort of evolution in a way, where it's the next step that human beings can take. It's collective consciousness, right? It's like a hive mind coming together. 

So think of like AI just putting together so much data. And that's all of us all imagine 5000 10,000 humans coming together and their minds and bodies and everybody vibrating as one. You know, that's evolution, I would say it's going to the next level of us as a species and organism. 

So I feel I personally believe that's what it is, because I have felt that, that feeling I have not felt anywhere else, you know. So I feel we should have more of these, more of these gatherings, it doesn't have to be 5000 10,000, even 10 people, 15 people coming together and experiencing that oneness. Yeah, even as a band, we aim for singularity, you know, as a sound, we want to sound as one. 

So when we sound as one with the crowd when being as one, it's a very spiritual feeling, like you say, it's, it's out of this world. Wonderful. Can you like, tell me what, how do you balance between improvisation and preparedness in rehearsal? And is there something as such as too much rehearsing? Oh, yes, there is something as too much rehearsing, definitely. 

Like I said, we, everybody practises enough. And I trust everybody's muscle memory. And I trust them that they've practised enough. 

I trust myself that I've practised enough for it to come out on the stage. With, of course, we 

can't go with a fully improv set. Yeah. 

I mean, I don't know if that's a gig. That's a jam. Yeah. 

So you, there have to be parts of it that's rehearsed, if you want to put on a performance. That's, that's your true identity, right? So that's your sort of, what do you say, you lock on to that, whichever bit you've rehearsed. And then the improv bit is where the fun starts, you know. 

So we can't rehearse for improv. Like I said, everybody individually practises their skills and their art and their craft. But when you come there, it's all about being in that moment. 

And improv is every day is going to be different. It's how we feel. Again, if it's both of us playing on stage, it's in that moment what we're feeling, what I'm hearing you playing and what I respond with you. 

And it's a give and take. So again, it's a communication between musicians and artists of how we are feeling in that moment. And it's captured in that point in time. 

That's it. So that's the best thing about improv. Sorry, what is the question again? What is the balance between improv? The balance. 

I mean, the balance, it's up to each individual. It's what you feel like, you know, that's the great thing about independent musician and art. We can do whatever the fuck we want. 

That's why we do this. So for me personally, it is having something the crowd can relate to. And then the improv bit is where we go crazy. 

But how we bring it back to that song is what makes us great, you know, and makes it special. It makes it special because we also sometimes are really like I get goosebumps sometimes on stage. Like recently we played with the horn section and one part, it really crescendoed really well. 

And I got goosebumps listening to it. It's our own song, but I've heard it so many times. But this time it was something special. 

It came together really well. So at times you really find some sweet spots, which only if you give everybody that freedom to go push, keep going outside, you know, that's when you find something really new. And that's what we look for. 

Something new, something unique, something we haven't heard because as musicians, we are listening to so much music, right? So we are always pushing for those boundaries of where can we take this? Yeah, that's great. So how do you react to something that goes totally wrong on stage? Some total mistakes by the band or mistakes, something going, sound shutting off? The show must go on. We keep everywhere, we keep playing no matter what it is. 

It's how you bring it back. You get like flustered, you get like annoyed and stuff. I get annoyed if 

one particular person is repeating a certain mistake over and over again. 

But if it just happens to that day, especially in that moment, I don't get annoyed at all. It's only after the fact or after the show. I'll go to that person and be like, macha, that part, same thing, you made a mistake. 

Get your shit together, you know, stuff like that. But if it's just a one off thing or something happens, I'm talking just amongst the band. We got a, we laugh it off so many times. 

I look at him, just, you know, I give a look at him, laugh it off and then just make sure we come back. That's what makes you great. It's how you come back to the, because as humans, we are going to make mistakes. 

I'm not going to hold anybody accountable for their mistakes. But you've got to figure out a way to come back. You can't make a mistake and then just stop. 

Yeah, the show must always go on. That's a strict rule. Even we played in Delhi, where Manu's kick, the head of the kick came off. 

Okay. So there was no kick suddenly. And then his his cymbal fell off. 

Like you're playing piano man. Okay. It's a small space. 

Okay. And drum, the drums are in the corner. Yeah. 

So he's, Manu's going crazy and one heavy song, it's a solo section we're going. His drums fall off, cymbal falls off, there's no kick. And this is a very like heavy part of the song. 

Again, it's an improvised bit. I think one of us was soloing, Shailu was soloing. And it was so crazy. 

Drum stopped, it just everything fell apart and he couldn't play. But Shailu and I kept going. And it's driven guitars. 

What we're doing is just creating noise. Okay, so it's become like part of the show. But of course, the crowd can see that something's wrong. 

But it's it was such a magical moment. Yeah, that we're just creating noise. I'm looking at Shailu and we're like, just I'm just whacking my guitar creating noise and then bass suddenly is creating noise. 

And then suddenly, like Manu fixes things does some role comes in and the crowd went fucking crazy. And we also felt great. We're like, Oh shit, we're back in it. 

So, so basically, the mistake has generated something something new. Yeah. And that that is something we would have never got. 

Yeah. Even if we would have planned it, we would have never got it. So that this is what makes performance live performance so special. 

You get human aspects that you can see as an audience, you can see that we are not perfect. But see how beautiful that imperfection is. You know, that's the great thing. 

What do you think is the most at least for you? What is the most challenging aspect of performing? And what is an aspect that you particularly dislike? If there is something like that? For me, the most challenging thing about performance, like I told you is, is everything around it is the mind space. That to get in that right mind space is very tough. If you're in India, especially, you know, even big festivals, we've been treated like shit. 

So I have no hope for the Indian organisers and event organisers. That's why we are all like you are organising gigs, musicians are organising gigs, and even we just started something. So that is more of a grassroots moment where I feel like musicians can really thrive and really take it to the next step. 

Because in India, it's a struggle to mentally because if a musician is not mentally, like comfortable on stage, it is not going to be a good show. You're already stressed out by the time you're exactly yes, muscle memory, you might pull it off, you might pull off a show that looks like nothing happened. But you know, as musicians, we want to feel good while playing. 

So that is my goal. When I organise a show, when I get other musicians on board, just be yourself, be comfortable. I want you to give me all of you genuinely, you know, comfortably with nothing forced out of you. 

That's what I aim to achieve. And if we can do that, I think it'll be really good for the music community and musicians to take it to the next step. So that is the biggest challenge of performance for me is just that headspace of being comfortable as a performing artist. 

Okay. So what would you expect from an organiser? If you want to, there's a checklist, say four things, or whatever. How do you think that can be better? Listen to the artist. 

Of course, I'm not saying all artists because some artists will have some ridiculous demands and stuff. But listen to your friend who's an artist. Or you know, if you're if you yourself aren't an artist or a musician who hasn't performed, then you don't know what it takes to perform on stage. 

So take the advice of your friend who is an artist who has performed. Not every artist that's coming or you're booking you need to listen to. But just take, listen to them. 

You don't have to take their advice. Listen to what they're offering. Consult with a friend of yours who's also a musician. 

Understand why they are asking these things. Because I can't just put four things because 

every artist might want different, different, small, small, different things. But just know that if an artist is genuine, he's not going to demand for unnecessary things that will bleed into your pocket or that will make you go out of your way. 

Just basic things so that he can put on the best show that you have paid him to do. That's all an artist wants. So just listen to him. 

That's all. Okay, brilliant. What's your relationship with the audience? What role do they play? Do they, do you think they have some kind of responsibility even? My again, like I'm getting emotional talking about audience, audience very special for me. 

I always show gratitude. Even if there's two people come to watch us, I will thank them to my heart, you know, because for me, I feel like it is a privilege to be on stage and to do this. And while I'm doing this for some people to buy tickets and come and watch me do this. 

It's special. So I will always show gratitude to whoever comes and watches me perform, you know, I'm getting goosebumps thinking about it. It's, it's very special. 

And audience is what keeps me going. You know, it keeps me doing this. Recently, like I was very down, I had planned a lot of things for Jatayu which didn't work out this year. 

So I was really down and a lot of other things in my life that weren't working out. But we went to the Reunion Island recently, three, three weeks ago. Ayoma, it's a showcase festival. 

First of all, that island is beautiful. It's a cultural hub. It used to be a slave trade island. 

And now it's a cultural hub of Tamils, Africans, Sri Lankans, Asians, French, Australians. So it's a beautiful cultural hub. So it's a very open minded crowd. 

So we perform there. And the love that we received, it just again ignited something in me. You know, there are times where I have decided that I'm going to quit. 

But it's not worth it. But the audience is what gives me that energy and inspiration to, it's a circle, like me, watching somebody perform inspires me. You know, as a kid, when I went to watch a live performance, it inspired me to do something like that. 

Now, it's the same thing. Me performing, the crowd is inspiring me to keep going. Because the love that I receive from the crowd is, what do you say, I can't put in words. 

It's a feeling that is very overwhelming. But also, it validates all of what you're doing. You get in that moment. You're like, okay, I'm not wasting my life. You know, it's like that. 

Yeah, so My relationship with the audience is always going to be a special one. I am nothing if not for the audience beautiful So how important are stage persona and appearances for you? And also one more thing I want to ask is are you the same person off and on stage? another good question, so I am NOT actually like I told you I've always been an introvert When we started playing with Jatayu, I wasn't the front man. I wasn't talking. 

I wasn't leading the band As I started to take over and lead the band, I started talking on stage. Hmm. I started building a persona. 

It's still me but I It's initially I was struggling to talk to the audience So what I would do is I would talk to my bandmates and we would make fun of each other. That's how I started Building this persona on stage We start making fun of each other on stage and then just calling each other names It became like a casual thing that we were doing then I got comfortable doing that on stage and then slowly then I started to Talk to the audience that way and then still have this banter going on. So that was my process of building this persona I Am still I would say two different People on stage. 

I am slightly different, but it is still me. I feel like What do you say the music has given me Confidence like the music that we are about to play has given me confidence to speak some more. Hmm so the music has uplifted my Mental space has uplifted my boosted my confidence in in being a person in Talking to someone as a person. 

So When I'm on stage I Talk, you know, I talk I say things that I would never usually say when I'm offstage But it's still very close I would say my persona on stage is a little bit bolder than my persona offstage. Okay? and you guys like to dress up and Things that you wouldn't wear Outside, right? Yes again. This is very recent. 

Another part of performance is you need to look good Yeah, yeah, so we always wanted to be comfortable But now at recently at IOMA the Reunion Islands there we got a new outfit Where we feel both comfortable and we feel like we look good, you know earlier We tried a couple of outfits where it looked good, but we weren't too comfortable wearing them now I think we found a balance where we were comfortable, but we also can look good and Have an overall appearance and branding. Of course, these are all things these days you need to do To survive. Yeah As a musician because the visual again humans are very visual creatures So more than even if your audience is mostly musicians, they're still looking at you So apart from you Looking at each other and jamming on stage that you also have an appearance that you need to hold So definitely an appearance is needed there's a persona Where you have certain attitude where you have a visual appearance on stage and all of that resonates with the crowd so I think Now 

we have or at least I have reached a stage where I feel like yes We need to build an onstage persona We need to look at what we are wearing and you know Look at certain visual aspects of stage look at now. 

I'm looking at production lighting props What else can we do on stage that keeps the audience engaged, okay brilliant Let's talk business and money So you are not only the band leader but as from the outside as I see it you're pretty much the manager of Jatayu also and yes the one who does all the business negotiations and What does it take for an independent act to become as successful as Jatayu and how did you build this? Well Again, it's a long journey, but the simple answer is being independent. Hmm, you know people think I'm an independent musician But they don't know what it takes if you're independent, that means you're completely independent. You've got to do everything yourself Yeah, you've got a whatever social media. 

You've got a book touring. You've got a figure out recording production release distribution Whatever all of the legalities being independent means you're independent You've got to do a lot of work. It's a lot of work. 

You've got to do it all You don't always have to do all of it, but only if you do all of it Do you realise what you're good at same thing happened with me? I had to do all of it and then I realised oh, I'm good at certain aspects. I'm good at negotiating I'm good at working out deals. I'm good at just making things happen If things are about to fail I figure out a way quickly to just get it done You know, there are certain decisions you have to make in that moment and that comes again with practise You have to talk to people understand what they need what problems they're facing. 

I have had to solve other people's problems more than mine Because if I solve their problems that solves my problem, you know, so it's like that you have to a lot of problem-solving basically You have to talk to people See why see whether they want you or not first if they want you what's the issue? Why are they not calling you is it lack of money? Okay. No worries. I'll figure out another tour close to your city I'll figure out another gig close to your city. 

Get me there just Give me a gig. That's all you know, as long as I'm playing the gig without a loss. It's a win That's how I started off as an independent musician now, of course Levels are different and problems are bigger and everything's like I said, you know, I had a full Europe tour planned Yeah, I went to shit. 

Oh, okay. I'm not aware of that. I thought it's happening I mean this year it's not happening. 

Okay Hopefully next year. Okay, but we lost again. There are decisions. 

I've made decisions that really worked out well, then again, I made decisions that May now basically we're losing half a year I could have done because we we have really Branched out into Southeast Asia well and we got a lot of offers from Southeast Asia to play this year a lot of festivals in Bali and Taiwan and Japan and stuff, but I declined all of them because I had a 

Europe of Exactly. So that sucks exactly. So there are decisions like that that will really haunt you and Kill you from the inside, but you got to keep going So this is not my first time with this feeling like this with this decisions. 

I've Done a lot of mistakes I've made some great decisions, which has led to us playing Fuji rock You know, there was a similar thing in 2022 where we got selected for About three showcase festivals one in Sweden one in Singapore and one in Japan Hmm, I had to decide which one to do, you know, whether we with Sweden is we break into Europe Singapore and Japan we break into Southeast Asia so That was a tough decision I had to make because we had only a limited amount of money to get this done So I chose Southeast Asia and from that tour we got Fuji rock and wonder fruit and we really Like shot into Southeast Asia that way now we are a well-known name in Southeast Asia. Yeah So sorry, what made you choose Singapore over the other two? Basically It was a lot cheaper to do Southeast Asia. That's the gist of it It's we had a set amount of money where we had to get this done. 

Okay, so you had to put in your own money, too Yes, initially we crowdfunded actually We took the help of a lot of friends and family and a lot of our patrons Who really helped us with our first international tour so showcase festivals. They don't pay you Reunion, I mean I am as the only showcase I think in the world where they take care of everything They pay you and flights and all of that But any other showcase festival they just offer you a slot, huh, you have to get there yourself You have to figure out accommodation visas everything. You've got to figure out yourself. 

Okay, so Sweden was a lot more expensive to do. Yeah, it's further and Europe. Yeah money exchange Yeah, it's it's it was a lot based. 

That's the Main decision as to why we chose Southeast Asia Yeah, and that worked out great for us and So Like I said, you got to try out Everything that an independent artist does initially you have to do it all There's no getting around it. If you don't do it, you're losing that one aspect of your Career or that you're losing one thing that can take you another step further You gotta try it if you're not good at it's fine. Hmm, I Suck at social media, but I had to do it Even though I hated it. 

I had to sit and just post stories post share. I hate it. Hmm But now I don't do it Yeah, now I realised I'm not good at it. 

So if I keep doing it, it's only gonna hinder the growth of the band How do I know that by doing it? You know, so and how do I know I'm good at no negotiations and logistics and planning because I did it First 2019 tour I did the thing and we didn't lose money. Hmm, and that's when I was like, oh shit guys I can do this for us. You know, it was just like a light bulb moment suddenly my head I'm like shit everybody made like little bit money and we didn't lose money. 

I'm like why am I Chasing after labels and to organise tours for us. I can do it You know, so that really sparked something in me and we're like, okay bigger next where can we go bigger Oh 

Southeast Asia I planned a Southeast Asia to bigger bigger and now I planned a Europe tour and then that went to shit But again, you got a rebuild Okay, you keep getting bigger it crashes. Yeah, it's a process. 

It's a roller coaster, right being an independent musician You really have to be emotionally mentally physically healthy Because if you don't have these things It's a downward spiral. Okay what You have any like financial advice you can give to People who are starting out their journey in performing arts because I know that it's difficult it is so It it depends on The project and who the musician or artist is one is You got to put initially for the first year or two You got to put all of the money back into the project or whatever you are trying to build. Hmm. 

I Think that is very important You have to for your personal self You have to figure out something else if you're trying to build a project or something Whatever money you're making initially and this is I'm saying if you don't have funding if you have funding that's a different That's a different game But if you don't have funding whatever you're doing initially Whatever trying to build All of the money has to go back into it. Whatever money is coming from that project. You have to put it back into it and even after a year or two a certain percentage of that Money has to keep going back into the project. 

Otherwise, it's not sustainable if you keep taking Money out of the project is going to die out. Hmm, or you will have to end up putting it from your pocket That is very important when you're This like accounting and discussing finances for a project or for something that you're starting to build Out like I was going to say something. I forgot Financial you said Financial tips for Financial tips, I mean Money management is again something you got to try it out for yourself. 

Hmm, like when I plan toes I'm always initially the first door. I'm always trying to cut costs wherever I can So you have to know? Yeah, this is very important. So this also another thing I figured out you got to know where your strengths are What your Projects or your bands or you as a musician or artist what your strength is and put your money there. 

Hmm. That is very important Like with Jatayu I realised Spotify and streaming platforms aren't our strength or even videos Aren't our strength. Our strength is in live performance. 

So I put all of the money in showcases You come watch us live and then you will realise who we are So that is our strength in live performance So that way as an artist as a band you got to really figure out where your strength is and put your money in it Hmm and then find a business model for it Like we I know for us there is no business in India, you know So I had to find it outside of India. Hmm. So right now with the internet age Even if there's a corner in Japan that Likes your music you can sell it to them, you know, so That's very important. 

Use the internet. These are advantages of social media and the internet You can really use it to find your niche. Even if it's a small niche that you're catering to There is someone who is always there to listen to it. 

So do your research properly Find out first is your strength and find out a business model for that strength I mean find out a network basically you got to figure out do a lot of research see What your strength is and where your strength can really sell and you know do well Hmm, so this is very important if you're growing I spent a lot of years wasting money on Certain things like I said, you know playlist playlisting video promotion Social media marketing. Yeah, all that doesn't work for Jatayu. But if that is something that works for a certain project, please do it On the other hand Tamil Jazz Collective is a very different Recently a video went viral. 

Yes, Jatayu will never video go viral like that, you know Yeah so Stuff like that You got to figure out where the strength of that project is and what will sell in that project and where it will sell Yeah, Tamil Jazz Collective. It's a very specific thing. It's a One is a Tamil language. 

So it sells to a lot of Tamil speaking in Sri Lanka and Tamil Nadu Malaysia Singapore So like this you got really chart out territories where this can work What is the strength of this project and where it can work? Once you have that charted down Whatever money you have put it in that put it in that and you will see it really grow and multiply. Hmm brilliant How do you deal with like things going south in your personal life or mentally and when you have a show? Oh When I have a show same time same time like does it affect you So I have a Short story from when we did Fuji Rock. This is just before Fuji Rock. 

We toured in Taiwan And we weren't feeling so good. I mean I was a little unwell Things back home also weren't too good. Hmm. 

My dog had just died. Hmm So personally I wasn't feeling too good and what I do generally when I'm here I'd like to reconnect with nature hmm, I like to just Cut out social media Cut out whatever Music whatever work is going on my life. Just go be with nature. 

I feel like it really aligns my What do you say my mind my body my spirituality it brings it together Just like a live performance when you're in the crowd, right? You're in that moment same with nature. I'm just in that moment aligning myself with the river or with the Trees or wind or whatever. So this in Taiwan are amazing agent in Taiwan John Huang I Told him like listen, we're going to Japan to perform. 

So before Fuji Rock we stopped at Taiwan Did like four five shows told him we're going there We would really love to see some mountains close by and he was sweetheart he Rented out a car for us. He drove us down personally to a nice mountaintop. That was amazing. 

It was just us beautiful breeze and Yeah that rejuvenated the whole band, you know, it really inspired us and then the next day we were getting on the flight to Japan so that really Inspired us and refreshed our minds Like it's a reset button, you know that You come back and you're like, okay, we got to do this. No, I'm ready. So It's different for everybody. 

You got to find what works for you But for me, this is what works and luckily we had the things To bring it together in Taiwan if I'm in India, I can just book a bus and go somewhere, you 

know, but in Taiwan Yeah, luckily we had an agent and he was really sweet who? Catered to our needs like Manu. He's very He's Feeding Manu is very hard on tour. Okay. 

Yeah, I'm sure you're aware so in Taiwan our man John Huang He has gone and found dosa for Manu from somewhere Yeah, you know so like that it's about meeting like we meet such nice people and he spent out of his own pocket He spent I'll tell you how much he got four dosas for us It is about eight thousand rupees Wow for four dosas. Okay, that was the cost but he spent out of his 4000 NTD 4000 NTD exactly. Yeah, four thousand Taiwan dollars and He paid that much to get us like four dosas, okay But out of his own pocket, he didn't ask us for it He's like no I wanted you guys to feel comfortable and so we are grateful that way that we get to meet people like this in our journey who really Help us do this, you know in India That's there's a handful of people who I can tell who would have done this for us You know out of 1 billion people as a handful of people who do this so it's it's Very special to find someone like that. 

So I'm always grateful for the music Because through music I'm able to meet people like this Who helped me become a better person who helped me through my journey? so yeah, you got to do what works for you and build a Network of people around you that help you do so you got that's very important the people you work with or who you're around Really weigh on you emotionally mentally, you know So that network also is very important to have if you feel like some somebody you're working with is not right or is putting you down Either have that conversation with them and let them know that it's happening or cut ties with that person and build a better network Because you are at one point you are going to be down and you will need that person to lift you up So building that ecosystem around you also is very important How important is physical and mental fitness For playing those long sets and do you do any kind of special workout regimen? I enjoy sports generally. So I try to stay as active as possible. I've seen you climbing climbing Yeah, just yesterday. 

So I went in it's I enjoy climbing. I enjoy sports any sports badminton spike ball fizz be basketball, whatever any sport I'm down to play Um that way so for a long performance I wouldn't say it's as necessary But to tour It's very important because while you're touring you're not sleeping. Well, you're eating something else constantly Your schedule is all over you're lugging around a lot of equipment and gear and it weighs on you after like One week of tour after two weeks of tour suddenly your body's Breaking down breaking down. 

So For touring, I think it's very important to stay fit Especially if you're going on long tours international tours, especially food is different weather is different It really weighs on your body but for a long set um I shouldn't be saying this but I don't think it's needed because I've I gave uh shilu a lot of shit Because initially when he started he was sitting and playing all four of you seem to have like lost full weight and all then Yes But I think that's just a coincidence Uh, nothing to do with this. Okay, just Very initially when we started performing shilu was sitting down and playing So that's something I didn't really enjoy And I told him and he's like macha I got that was more of I think he just got used to as a carnatic musician Uh, they sit and play always so it's just something he got used to But also he he was very lazy right now he's not he's 

lost a lot of weight He's active. He's doing a lot of proactive things but initially I that's something I didn't enjoy and he was also lazy and fat so Uh, I wouldn't say it's the fitness. 

I would say it's mostly mentally. He was lazy, which is why he sat and he did it so that's why I think um It also depends on your performance, right? If you're someone like pearl jam who's running and climbing The stage and all that then of course you need to be fit but if you're somebody like Herbie hancock or someone who's just sitting and playing a piano, you know, then you don't really need you can play He'll play three hours five hours six hours. He'll sit and he'll keep playing So fitness physical fitness. 

I don't think For a performance is much needed but for a tour, it's definitely needed. Okay lots of artists and musicians can't get on stage without having some kind of external stimulant alcohol drugs What's your opinion? What's your relationship? with substances and before I'm not talking about personal life just before a performance and or performing for me, I feel whatever The substances it's an experience so even if people that i'm playing with if they want to be under the influence i'm fine as long as you're You know what to do you're aware of what needs to be done and you don't mess up the whole performance That is the main aspect of it If you want to be under the influence of anything Please feel free if you are confident of what you need to do and you can execute it Please because I that's another fresh perspective I get from you and that's all I want. Like I told you earlier. 

I want a genuine Perspective from the people i'm playing with that's how we make it fresh. We make it unique. So i'm completely okay I'm, not against anybody doing anything. 

Just don't hurt anybody else Don't kill yourself. Yeah Yeah, these are of course the yeah general guidelines if you don't do that and then make sure You don't Even if you make a mistake is fine, but don't ruin it for the rest Don't make a mistake so huge that the whole performance is jeopardised because of your mistake So that way i'm completely open I sometimes I uh Welcome it, you know some some it again depends on the venue depends on the people we are playing to Depends on the festival if the festival is that kind of festival where people are just in their zone and vibing out, you know Wonder fruit is such festival And thailand is a place where you know weed is legal and stuff is everything's happening people are doing things So there it's open i'm more open to yeah, come on. Fuck it This is the place here if we don't write here where else we're gonna try it, you know, so It it depends on place on people's mindset if you're not feeling good and you won't be under the influence Then we'll maybe have a discussion as is this a healthy way to go about this Or you just want to avoid what you're feeling, you know, there are a lot of nuances to this Why people take things why they don't take things? so it's uh, it's it's a conversation you need to have with yourself and with your Bandmates if this is A healthy way to do this Uh, or if you're Only deteriorating your health with this So that it's a fine line. 

Yeah, but i'm open to anything like I said as independent musicians We have the freedom to do independent. Yes being independent. Exactly brilliant What do you think is the aspect of live performance that you can never find in anything else in any other recorded medium also? 

Connection like I said, um an artist Connects with his audience only through live performance true connection Of course people say oh If I go live i'm connecting with an audience. 

Yeah, that's what it's uh I mean, maybe so, but I don't feel so. For me, like, I can show it in data. If I go live and I try to sell merch, nothing's gonna happen. 

But if I perform live to an audience and sell them merch, it's sold out. It's hard data. I'm showing you data why a live performance works. 

Online, if I'm just pushing a link to someone, be like, buy this, buy this, buy this, maybe 20%, 30% of the time you will get a sale. But live 100% of the time, you're going to get a sale. So it's the connection, I have really connected with the audience where he's like, okay, I need to buy something, you know. 

So human connection. That's all I would say. What's your hope for the future? Since we're living in a very digital world, full of 15 second drills. 

People think that is lots of them are living fake and people think that is real. Yeah. So do you think like human life performance has more of a value or less of a value coming in the future? Do you think people will connect to it more? Again, value is what we put on it. 

For me, it's immensely valuable. For someone else, it might not be. It's subjective. 

What value we put on it is very subjective. So I don't bother with the people that are putting out 15 second reels, faking it. I don't want to fight that fight. 

I don't want to convince those people that this is not right. I know people who enjoy a live performance, I just build that. You reach out to the people who enjoy this, who do this, who want to do this and who want to build this and hope that it gets bigger from there. 

What is the question? Hope for the future. Hope for the future. As a live performer. 

Yeah, as a live performer. Like I said, if I don't worry about these other things. It's not for me to think about. 

I can't control these uncontrollables. So in my head, I'm just like, don't bother. It's mental energy I have to spend on something that is not going to change from my point of view. 

Of course, if it changes, great. If it doesn't change, great. I have my thing. 

You know, that's why I don't let it bother me. I know that we have a certain group of people. I know there's a certain percentage of the population who are into this. 

So I do the best I can to give that population the best experience so that they can talk about it, spread word. They come again for the next performance, then build that community, build 

musicians who want to do this. It's basically coming together. 

You have to, we as independent musicians cannot fight each other because already we are at a minority. If you fight and spread some more, it's only going to get worse. We have to come together, support each other, build that community and hope that it stays and it keeps getting bigger and eventually down the line it overpowers the rest and we become the majority basically. 

That is a positive way of looking at it. The other aspect is like, basically, I'm thinking of projects. Again, this is, I'm thinking of projects where I'm playing end of the world music. 

You know, it's like that. I'm still doing what I love to do, but it's doomsday. Okay, fuck it. 

I'll play music for doomsday. Let's die experiencing this collective consciousness. Let's die experiencing it. 

You know, so I will do that till I die also. Whether the world is burning or the world is full of greenery. Or AI takes over. 

Or AI takes over, I'm still going to be doing this. That's a great way of looking at things, I think. I think just a couple more things before we wrap up. 

If you have to distil what is the essence of performance into one philosophy or one thought, what would it be? I know it sounds deep and all that, but whatever. Yeah, that's a deep question. What do I say? I mean, I don't read much. 

So I'm not very literate with philosophy and stuff. Said so many great things. So just to sum up. 

What do you sum up? Yeah, I mean, again, I'll end up repeating what I've said. Is evolution basically, you know, it's collective consciousness, we need to if we want to better our lives and take human beings to the next step. You know, otherwise, we are going to be eradicated. 

We are the species that will be wiped out, which I think is coming. I think it's coming. But if we don't want that, I think live performance is where it's at. 

If we want to collectively, because it's all love, even if you go to a metal gig, where people are moshing, and it's heavy and it's dirty, and people are raging, it's still all love between them. Nobody's there to kill another, you know, actually, in fact, like some of the more modern metal musicians seem to be some of the sweetest people. Exactly, like, not like, exactly. 

So whether, whether it's a live gathering for metal or for Carnatic or jazz or blues or whatever, it's a live gathering of people who come together to experience something great. And that cannot be taken away. And that can only lead to a better human consciousness. 

You know, so I feel evolution, if humans want to evolve, live performance is where it's at. Brilliant, Saib. Thanks for these great thoughts. 

Thank you. Of course. Thank you for having me. 

Do you have any dream venue you want to play at? Dream venue? Yeah. That's also a good question. Nice. 

So, not really. There, there are venues, I mean, I haven't really thought of it. For me, my inspiration is more of just reaching a new place. 

People. People, yes. Like I said, Reunion, like everywhere I go, Shiloh and I do this. 

Every city we're in, new city we're in, we're like, shit, where are we? Because it's, especially Japan and Reunion, it's different architecture, different people, different culture. So we're standing there and we're like, where the fuck are we, macha? Like, is our music has brought us here? You know, it's that feeling of, wow, us sitting and just playing something in our rooms has got us to some remote island in some corner of the world. And so that is something I look forward to, something new, new people, new experiences, new food, new culture. 

So I want to keep exploring that. That's a goal for me. And I'm grateful that my music is allowing me to do so. 

Brilliant. Thank you so much, Sahib. All the best. 

Of course. I think this is a great, great thing that you're doing with this podcast. I think not too many people talk about this. 

Yeah. The hope is for people to listen to each other. Exactly. 

Yeah. Like the artists, the organisers and the audience. I heard CNO's the other day and that was really, really good, you know, because these are things you don't realise, even as a performing artist, you don't realise what is going on in his head when he's performing. 

So it's very refreshing to see and hear. So thank you for starting this and thank you for having me. It was great talking to you. 

Thanks. 

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