Ep 20. Hrday Sunil - The Introvert

Performing isn't just about technique—it's about presence. Our guest Hrday Sunil shares a powerful, honest look at their evolution from an anxious introvert who dreaded the spotlight to an artist who actively feeds off the crowd. We explore the profound difference between the perfectionism of the studio and the fleeting, beautiful "compromise" of live music.

They detail the practicalities of gig life, the importance of systematic troubleshooting over frustration, and the one piece of advice that helps them survive the "dry months" of a touring musician: just play for the love of the instrument.

Transcript

So, how has your experience of or your understanding of what performances evolved from the time you started to up to now? I think for me, I am kind of an introvert. So, it was definitely a place that I would rather not be. Like in the beginning, I thought it was a lot more inward, the experience was a lot more inward. 

It took me a long time to transition from my head going from just like me playing and to like being able to perceive the audience and like play off of them and what they were responding to and like feeding off of their energy came a lot later. So, I would say I think that's what it's come to now. After so long, it's basically come to a point where I'm able to enjoy myself on stage and really um feel the audience's presence and if they like something or you know whatever happens in the moment I'm able to like um come to terms with it and enjoy that as its own thing. 

Like before I used to be very specific on like this is how a show should go or this is how that entire thing should play out but now I feel like it's a mix of what you're prepared for and then what happens eventually and I think that's the beauty in it. Like for me that's what performance is. It's like the spontaneity of the moment and your intention getting combined into something else. 

Do you remember like a performance you saw in the beginning that blew your mind and said I want to do this? Oh for sure. I think for me one of the earliest ones was I think I went to Sarang which is the IIT Madras festival and I saw Agam performing and that really blew my mind. For me they were one of the first bands that I was like wow this is something that I want to do. 

I just want to be on stage and I want to create something else you know. I didn't know it was possible because when I was growing up most of the bands I was familiar with were from the west and so I was seeing videos of maybe Led Zeppelin or Linkin Park or whatever and they were doing that but I didn't know it was possible here and when these kind of bands came in it really shook me because I was like wow this is possible here as well and for me to like go through that was great. Like that was one of my favourite experiences. 

Brilliant. Can you take me through your preparation process for a gig? For a show yeah. It depends on the show. 

So for gigs where I'm playing film music or already like released commercial music it's more about trying to basically replicate that music in its best form. Sometimes we do arrange the music in our own way. So in that case yes learning the arrangements with the particular arrangements for the band I'm working in. 

But apart from that if I'm just freelancing most of the time it's like trying to replicate the music. 

So my preparation process would just be going listening to the songs trying to get them into my head and then I'll go about probably charting them out and learning all the parts and going to rehearsal and all of that. When I'm working with my own bands probably it's a lot it's a lot more creative there. 

So there we kind of have the song as a skeleton and we kind of work our arrangements around it which is a lot more fun to me. And then for any of the artists that I the independent artists I play for that's also really fun because I'm trying to at that point I'm trying to create my own guitar parts and I'm trying to arrange the music as we go. And for me that's really fun because the other side of like the other thing that I do is music production. 

So for me it's like that part of my brain is kind of going to work there. So that's kind of my process generally. So I would start off listening to all these songs and I'll just try to think what I can do with it and that's my that's my goal really. 

Okay. What about other aspects of performance? Like suppose you have a show today or tomorrow is there some kind of a diet or something that you don't eat or you eat or you don't drink or you drink? In terms of diet or food not really. I just try to whenever I'm travelling I just tend to eat safe. 

So I try to like have really basic curd rice or something because I don't want to deal with anything that happens when I'm outside of Chennai. So that is one thing and I generally don't consume any alcohol or anything like that before the show. I don't condone it. 

I know people who do that and it's their choice. I just don't like to do that. For me it's something that I just want to make sure my performance like I know what's going on in my head and I'm physically present and mentally present in the best way possible when I'm performing. 

Like that's important to me. Okay. We were talking about soundcheck so let's talk about soundcheck. 

How important is a soundcheck to you and what do you look for in a soundcheck? Okay. So I would say soundcheck is very important because I think that really dictates the has the power to dictate the nature of how your show goes. But I've learned to become less reliant on it. 

In the sense before I was very scared about especially in a transition to like in-ears. I was very scared about getting the in-ear mix right during soundcheck and it's a process right and it's a like everybody has to have the discipline of you know playing their instruments when another person requires their monitor mix to be sorted and I think you kind of need to get into the mentality of I'm here to help move things along in the best way possible in the most efficient way possible rather than getting stuck on suppose like maybe like the I can't hear the bass enough or something or like some little thing which probably won't is not going to bother me during the show. If like rather than being very obsessed with it and trying to correct it and getting the mix engineer to do that I think it's also good to consider your fellow bandmates as 

time and the fact that they also have to set up and they have to get their stuff done. 

So I would say I try to get a basic monitor mix ready and I'm pretty happy with my tone and I just any minor inconveniences I just try to like go on with it yeah move on with it because I feel like you know that's okay like eventually when you're going to start playing and like you're looking at the bandmates and all of that like that's going to go out the window like you're not really thinking of that oh I can't really hear like this guy's one keyboard parts no right I think it's important to just think about the band as a whole and kind of find your sound within that and if you are set with that like sorted with that then you should be good to go for a show so yeah and also sound is the place where most things go wrong yes right like it seems to be the norm the norm and honestly to me then that makes it like now it makes it it was very frustrating before now it's fun like in a sense uh I don't I know I don't know what a gig would be for without things going wrong I actually enjoy sound checks actually yeah like there's a cable cable doesn't work di box doesn't work or something doesn't work without that I mean I feel like you know like the problem solving aspect of your brain doesn't really get you know so for the uninitiated uh in-ears are like small earphones that performers use so that they can hear what they're playing and what the other musicians are playing yeah so uh how important is your gear and your equipment to you um at this point I think it's important in the sense that right now I'm using a very like a digital platform I'm using helix and for me the reason why it's important is that it's very reliable and it's safe to say that um I'm able to get a very close sound like a consistent sound every single time so which is why I just haven't like I own some analogue pedals and all of that but I just haven't gotten into that because I'm a little scared of what might go wrong like you know something blows up or some patch cable doesn't work or something so like we were talking about like things go wrong right so for me I just want to make my sound check and my general show experience as convenient for me as possible and I just want to try to get things out of the way as fast as possible so right now yeah like my gear my helix and my guitar like I just try to make sure that my guitar is set up it's playing okay have fresh set of strings and all of that and it took me a while to get to the to the current gear that I'm using but right now I'm like at this place where I'm like okay this is it like you know because I think all of us have that phase of we keep trying to buy new acquire new gear yeah gear acquisitions and roam right so um but at a certain point I think you should let that go and just focus on playing yeah and getting getting the most out of what you have is something that's really important so right now I'm really happy with whatever I have it allows me to do whatever I need pretty versatile so it is important but I would say if tomorrow like you had you gave me a guitar and some random app I will try to make it work in whatever way I can and I think that's that's kind of the mindset you need to have is just try to make whatever you have work rather than being very fixated on very specific things that you need in order to get a show done so that would be my opinion on that yeah how much of a role does improvisation play in your work quite a bit again the percentage of it depends on the show I'm playing like I said before if it's a like cover gig or what like here they call it like playing originals in that case not a lot because you are expected to play the arrangement for note you mean when you're doing a commercial commercial show yes but in the case of like the bands that I play for like the 

arrangements that we have we have room for improvisation you know a lot of songs so in sometimes it might be that the arrangement itself or the structure is improvised which happens a lot like especially when we're trying to do some we have some songs where we do crowd work so we try to get the audience to clap along there are sections where we have like a drum solo or like a drum drummer and the mridangam artist have an exchange and that kind of goes on for a long time and so at that point we have a lot of free flowing sections which are not maybe there's no time limit right and we're trying to get the crowd involved so that's really fun and that has a lot of improvisation other times when we're working with like backing tracks it can be it can confine you a little bit but even in that we have spaces with solos and we have spaces for things to happen so yes improvisation definitely happens it's one of my favourite things to do but also I feel like improvisation improvisation has its real meaning when the other structured parts of the song are done well right for me like it's a balance of both that makes it special okay yeah okay beyond the skill and the technique do you think there is something beyond that like maybe spiritual or profound in a performance um yes for me yes uh it's like for the longest time I was not very spiritual but off late there are like it's just because I've experienced certain performances that just um kind of blew me away this is when you were playing or when I was watching when you watch sometimes when it's very rarely when I've played with somebody and maybe something that they were doing was like so amazing and uh for me um for longest time I had like or I still have that thing where I think most musicians when we listen to a song it's not like how a lay person listens to a song we are kind of analysing the song and it's not a thing that you can turn off with the switch right yeah it's it's really hard to like you're noticing something you're noticing how the drum sound maybe the kick kick or the snare or how the guitar tone is something you're always noticing something and analysing something but um once in a while there comes around like a song or a performer and they stop your ability to be able to do that and you're not able to analyse things anymore and it kind of for me it just hits me like a wave and I'm not able to think about are they you know like how are they doing this are they like I'm not able to like put attributes to what they're doing I'm just feeling at that point I'm just it's like a emotional hit and that's that's the thing that I feel like I've been trying to get back to and that was the thing that got me into music I think all of us like before we picked up an instrument and started figuring out songs the first thing was how does this make me feel and right now when I feel that like from somebody or from a performance or whatever I feel that that is something that is beyond skill or technique or whatever it's pure artistry and it's something beyond I can't explain it I don't want to name it also I want to put words I don't want to put words to it it's just something else how do you deal with like things when things go totally wrong anything maybe mistakes that people make or something wrong in the venue sound something speaker checks so the first so the I feel the best way to deal with things going wrong first step is accepting it and not trying to fight it like trying to look for the solution rather than fixating on that problem and trying to brute force things like if for example there is something wrong with the venue there is and the thing is like things can go wrong at various levels right and it's not on one person's head that you know you can just blame that one person because like honestly like there's so many things right so when we go to a venue a lot of times the stage hasn't been set up properly but that's because maybe like somebody else 

messed up in the supply chain of things right so or the power hasn't been set up or it could be so many things right and maybe the mix engineer he is not familiar with the console that he's working on that or maybe he asked for some other console and they gave him something else and he's not familiar with the one that he's working on that day and you can't like I mean it's a tough spot to be in so I think the best thing you should do like you should try to have is empathy for the people that you're working with and try to work together to fix the problem again it's all of us against that problem rather than you are the problem right I don't believe in that mentality so for me when things go wrong I just try to take like a very step-by-step approach of okay like let's troubleshoot this systematically so like for me if it's my own gear I have a way to troubleshoot it systematically and by systematically I mean trying to find the source of that particular problem whether like if I'm giving you like a small example like this noise or something like that so you want to start checking like the source of that right so maybe you start with your guitar you start at the jack and then you start then go to the cable then go to the processor then go to the so there's a way to like troubleshoot that signal chain and that applies for everything else it not just noise anything else like if like in your band or something there is a general feeling of like or general lack of maybe the arrangements are not tight or maybe the drummer and the bassist or the drummer and the other percussion player something they're not whatever they're playing is not working together with each other so for me the source of that problem is not that they're not playing it's a lack of communication so identifying the source of whatever problem is probably the best way to get at it and like solve it rather than trying to look at whatever it's caused and just take it for face value I think that's the best way to go about solving things are you able to think this rationally and clearly in the heat of the moment in the middle of a show I have to be very honest it's hard I'm gonna be honest with you it's very hard especially like you know as I said like with context when you are coming sleep deprived from another state and you're here and like that one di box is not working yeah you're like man I don't want to deal with this right now yeah but lately I've been trying to keep calm like nothing really gets solved when you get irritated or frustrated or whatever there is no like it's much easier to solve things when you're calm and composed and it's again like coming back to it it's acceptance it's acceptance that things will go wrong so when you're coming in with that expectation of not things not like being perfect all the time you're already like okay this is fine and I think the the one thing I wanted to say was like with live a lot of it is about compromise like I came from doing a lot of music production and then I transitioned into the live thing more and for me in music production especially like when we're putting out songs and that's going to be on on streaming platforms and whatever forever like technically forever for everyone to listen to so everything that you're doing is like trying to get the micromanage yeah micromanage right get the perfect kick the perfect snare because this is going to be there forever but the beauty about live is that it's a moment yeah and moments pass and so I think for me to learn how to compromise what I wanted for that moment and what actually happened in that moment and just reconcile both of them is like the beauty in it so yeah brilliant how much rehearsal is too much is this is there something as too much rehearsing that's a very good question um I think the amount of rehearsal where you start getting in your own head about things is the one that's like is the amount that's too much um ideally I would 

like to be in a place where I feel prepared but slightly on the edge slightly on the edge exactly there was something that uh like when I was studying so I was studying classical guitar and my teacher uh he pointed out something to me and it was very interesting so there was this piece that had like a really fast run or something like this and like every day I just keep practising and practising and practising because I'm just like I want to get to a place where whenever this thing comes up in that piece I don't want to feel scared or nervous about that happening and I got to a place where I could play it pretty comfortably and then he came and told me now try to play it faster and I said but why this is the tempo where it's at like why should I like I put so much effort trying to get this here and play it relaxed and play it with proper technique and he told me but it's not sounding like you could fail and I feel like the beauty is is the fact that when the audience feels like you're on the edge of your ability and you know you're on the edge of your ability but you somehow make it work there's an extra magic to that right that's the thrill of like performing and when it feels like you know it's really effortless and easy for you to do somehow the thrill of that doesn't it doesn't work like if you see Tom Cruise in Mission Impossible like you know like like doing every stunt with absolute ease and like as if he's like done it 10,000 times before in his life you're not going to enjoy that movie but if you feel like he's going to die yeah then you're like wow this keeps me on the edge of my seat so yeah I would say have enough rehearsal to be prepared and competent but also allow room for things to go in whatever direction yeah how does your personal history and your identity inform your performance does it it does it does in the sense for me my identity like in terms of it's been a contradiction for me in terms of I grew up here in Chennai surrounded by all this film music which is pretty much mainstream music here but I never had an interest in it when I was learning my instrument so when I was learning my instrument I was listening to everything from the west I was listening to Led Zeppelin or The Beatles or all of that and that's pretty much informed a lot of my musical taste and when it came time to work with artists from here it took me so long to understand the references that they were talking about because I just never do like you know I just never got into the vocabulary of that music the film music that like it's always been around me but it's not been in focus for me and I would say now I'm at a better place when it comes to that when somebody talks about oh this film in this part there's this song I want you to play something like that yeah I'm more likely to know what they're talking about you know rather than having to go to Spotify and be like what what is that so for me I was always disconnected from the musical culture here I never got into Indian classical music which I deeply deeply regret I really wanted I like now when I learn about it especially from some of my friends who are really great at their craft it's so intriguing to me and it's something I try to continue to learn about now and it's slowly seeping into my brain like I'm slowly trying to work my playing around that I don't think at this point I can incorporate the musical vocabulary because this has been so much of my identity but and I don't want to either because I for a long time I was regretting the fact that I oh I don't know Carnatic or Hindustani classical and I don't know how to play that on guitar if I wanted to but I'm okay with that now because I'm like this is how I play and that's fine like this is where I learnt my stuff from these are the artists I learnt listen to and I learnt my stuff from that's okay that that's me makes me me and if somebody else is listening to they've all listened to like Carnatic compositions for most of their 

life and that's their vocabulary let them be them and I don't need to be that they don't need to be me and I feel like when we kind of come together we create something even something that's you know more than the sum of its parts so yeah I would say definitely I hope I understood your question it's all there yeah what about stuff like politics and societal issues do they affect your performing I've thought about like so I've thought about creating songs with which have political meaning no creating songs is a different matter I'm talking about do you carry it with you when you perform or play on stage um to be honest no uh I'll I'll tell you why I said that so bluntly it's because for me music has always been like a form of escapism from what's happening around rather than like I and I know of like great acts that use music to kind of yeah you know reflect on what's happening outside like like punk rock like for example Green Day or something like that Rage Against the Machine yeah exactly right like all of these have great political influences and they have lyrics that still ring true today zombies like so many so many bands that have lyrics that still apply to our time right now for me I feel like for me music was a way to get out of reality for a bit just zone out and like just chill like not really think about all of this um and for that reason I feel like I have not really tried to carry that stuff with me on the stage um I generally want to have those two things separate like that's my personal thing yeah I completely adore artists who speak out about things through their music and who carry that with them for me that like listening to that music is amazing for me to do that is a little like it's a little too much for me to carry with me on stage or even when I'm producing something or whatever like if I'm working with an artist which I've done I've worked with artists who've had maybe things that they wanted to say and I'm happy to convey their vision like do my best to convey their vision through the production of that song but I don't feel like I would like like me personally I don't want to speak about it because um it's a little too much for my head like to for my creative this thing like I would rather escape from like that's my general idea is to create a safe space for myself when I'm producing What is the most challenging aspect of performing for you? And I will add something to it. Is there something in performing that you do not like? Something you dread or do not like? For me, the most challenging aspect is staying in the moment. There are some shows where it is really easy because you are having a great time. 

And all you want to have is that moment last a little longer. And there are shows where you just do not want to be there. Yeah, it happens. 

That happens. Or I would say you get so comfortable, like maybe you have played that set like 20th time now or 30th time now, whatever. And at that point, you are trying to find what can I do new here. 

And sometimes it is easy to get a little bored and go into autopilot. Like that is the thing I am trying not to do, is going to autopilot. Because it is so easy. 

Especially like when we have a muscle memory to just pull us through. Even when it comes to improv bits or whatever, it is so easy to not be intentional about what you are doing. Especially if you are taking a solo, it is so easy to just not try to create something. 

And also the worst way I feel like, I think I heard somewhere, somebody say, the worst way to try to play a great solo is to say that I am going to play a great solo right now and then go for it. That is not what happens. It is more about reacting to the moment as it happens. 

And for me, it is just trying to stay grounded and stay in that moment and try to create something on the spot, no matter how many times I have played that song before. And also paying attention to my band mates. That is super important as well. 

Because it is so easy to notice when somebody has stopped listening to somebody else. I am glad you mentioned that because listening to others in your band is very important. It is extremely important. 

You can easily understand because the thing is we are all having a musical conversation on stage. I would say a performance is like a musical podcast. All of us are just talking to each other with instruments and we are basically conversing and people are watching. 

And so if somebody is just zoning out and the rest of them are having a conversation, it is not really a good thing. So for me, that is one thing. And about the thing that I dread on stage, it ties into this. 

For me, I get into my head quite a bit. In the sense, I become inward or rather I start thinking about things that are happening to me and I kind of zone out other people. Or I zone out the 

audience. 

And for me, that is the main thing. Things that are happening to you as in your personal life or something? No, not necessarily. It could be the fact that maybe I just feel tired or I feel because it happens a lot. 

You feel tired or you feel like sometimes I felt really dizzy because maybe I did not have enough food or something. And sometimes it could be the fact that maybe it is a really challenging song and you are anxious about some one part. It happens. 

So you get into trying to get things right more than just let the music happen. And for me, that was one thing that I really needed to let go of, which I am letting go of still. There is a need to get things right and need to be a perfectionist on every single thing. 

I am like, okay, it is fine. It is fine to just let that go. Actually, a lot of times performance becomes better when you let it go and just make peace with the fact that whatever happens now is going to happen now. 

And it is going to move like things will pass. It will pass. And yeah, that is the one thing that I dread is just getting too caught up in myself or in my thoughts. 

I just touched upon personal issues. So do they affect you while you are playing? Suppose you had something else going on in your life that is not playing. So me personally, I have been, I am historically just known to compartmentalise everything in my life, like very clinically. 

You are saying very logical and rational. Yeah. Like for me, it is super, like when it comes to work, again, as I said, it is my escape. 

So whatever happens in my personal life, when I come to this, I am just like, yeah, this is what I am doing. Actually, it is almost like that is what people, for me, the advice I get most is like, you need to stop working to run away from things that you do not want to face. And that is what I do often. 

And I go crazy when I do not have work. And I think that is a normal thing for musicians as well. A lot of times, there are going to be dry months and musicians do get crazy in that time. 

Because you are like, what do I do? Am I ever going to play? It is a common thought that happens to everybody. And it is totally normal. And I just want to say that it is fine. 

And I can tell you from experience that it never goes away. It never goes away. Yeah, exactly. 

Because you do think like once I get to this level, I will never have an off-season. It is always there, you know. And it is okay. 

If I could digress from the question. Yeah, yeah, please. One of my friends told me something that I think their teacher told them. 

They were not getting shows or whatever. And I am not a very superstitious person. As you said, I have been talking pretty logically. 

But something that their teacher told them was just when you do not have shows or when you do not have all of this, just spend as much time as you can with your instrument. And just do it for that. Do not do it for anything else. 

Do not do it thinking that, oh, I am going to get shows. I am going to do this. Just work on your craft. 

That is actually good sound advice. Sound advice. And he said that when you do that, like opportunities will present themselves to you. 

And I do not know how that happens. But it has happened to me. Like I could say I followed that advice and it has happened to me. 

There have been months where I was like this month I am not going to do anything. So I am just going to sit here and just learn songs or like just do like just get better at my instrument. And randomly out of nowhere some person that you know you have not talked to in three years will call you for a show. 

And maybe that is proof of something or it is not. It is just coincidence. But I like to think that there is something there. 

I have a theory for this. I think like the time you spare, like when you get that sudden show after a long time, since you have been working on your instrument for such a long time, you are actually very so good at that show. Yeah. 

Yeah. It could be. Yeah. 

It just could be that like that is cause and effect there. Yeah. Yeah, definitely. 

I feel that is a good that is a good explanation for it. And I feel like the universe also kind of presents you opportunities that you are ready for or trying like you are able to manage. And if you are not ready for it, then at least it is at a point where you are able to grow from there. 

Yeah. So I think the best we can do is just make ourselves ready or prepared. Absolutely. 

Can you talk a little bit about how important is stage appearance, stage persona and showmanship? I am the wrong person to ask. Say I do not care. I do not care about all that. 

I am just myself. I will wear black T-shirt. So I was like this. 

OK. And I was very much reprimanded for that in the sense that I did not really think about it. But then I kind of ended up starting to think about it because and actually this is a very interesting conversation that I had with a friend recently. 

And so I think for some some show or shoot or something, we had to all wear kurtas and ethnic wear and all that. And he was like, but I am a part of this band and my individuality is that I want to I want to wear like some Hawaii shirt and baggy shorts and come. So why can't I do that? Let me be me. 

And I was like, yes, but like the song that we're trying to do and like the kind of entire like aesthetic of it kind of requires that we all do this. So again, it comes back to the question of individualism versus like what's good for the group. Right. 

It's a very interesting thing. I for like right now, I am at the point and my opinion can change later. But right now I'm at the point where I feel like sometimes you kind of have to let go of like your individualism so that what you guys see as a band together comes out better. 

So if that requires you like go and buy some random colour of attire that you never wear again in your life, sometimes you can have to do it and it's okay because you're trying to work for the larger cause. And I think it's important like when a band, when an audience comes and sees you as a band, they want to see you as a unit. Like imagine the players of the Indian cricket team were all wearing different things, right? Like maybe someone felt like wearing a hoodie or something. 

Somebody felt like wearing. It doesn't really make sense, right? Like you want to have a sense of bonding and you want to have a sense of we're in this together. And that's what makes a band a band. 

And I feel like that's also why there are not so many bands right now because we're hyper individualistic as a society right now. So I think... Okay, that's interesting. Yeah, like generally I feel like right now the way to go for music and artists is that, you know, you don't really see a lot of people coming together to make a musical project but you see a lot of features on other people's songs. 

So it's like you keep your identity but I will also keep mine and we'll be part of something together versus let's both come and compromise a little bit on your identity and my identity and we'll make something together. That doesn't happen as often. Okay, interesting. 

Yeah, yeah. What is the role of an organiser or a promoter? What do you expect from them? Okay, they have a very important make or break kind of role because I think all of us have a very like love hate relationship with organisers and promoters. We kind of need them to take care of the logistics of things very well so that we can do our part. 

Very well, yeah. Yeah, very well. When it becomes very apparent that they have not done their part like that's kind of the source of stress for a lot of us. 

It's like, oh no, like they didn't inform this person that this is supposed to happen in this time or like the timings are all messed up or accommodation is messed up or whatever is messed up. It happens and I feel like that's only just going to like deter or like degrade the final result like 

which is the performance rate because it's really hard for us to work on top of the So, I would say like working, it's really nice to work with people that you know will sort things out for you and people you've worked before. I mean, honestly, they're the salt of the earth. 

That's great to have organisers like that and when you don't have that it can be incredibly frustrating but again, like I said before, you just have to find a way to work with them and work things out. A lot of times, it comes down to communication. The way a band communicates and the way they communicate, there's a gap in that language somewhere. 

A lot of times, they don't understand what we need and maybe to be honest, to give them the benefit of doubt, maybe we also don't understand the constraints they are under because they also need to think about a lot of other things. We are mainly trying to think about how do we get our performance to be the best and I think if there was a way to like just get organisers and musicians in the same room and just have like a seminar or something and just like, hey guys, this is what we need from you and this is what we need from you and just talk it out, that would be better. I doubt that'll ever happen but yeah, I would say yeah, like it's super important and it's like a box of like, you know, it's like that Forrest Gump quote, like a box of chocolates, you don't know what you're gonna get, you don't know who you're gonna get that day for that gig and yeah. 

Is there like friction between bandmates, friction, ego clashes, all these things, did they happen? In a good band, there's a lot of it. Okay. That's my hot take on that. 

I would say for a band to be great, there needs to be that, like I would say and I'll tell you why. I've been in bands where there has been like zero conflict or zero differences in like ideas and all of that and it's not that interesting. I feel like the final output is not that interesting in a sense. 

Also, when it's like that, it's generally, I feel like it's a sign of not that there are no differences in opinion. It's just that people are not feeling comfortable enough to express it to each other. I would say a healthy like amount of friction is good because that means people are able to be open with each other and communicate and say, hey, I didn't really like what you're doing here. 

Can we change it according to this? And most, like if the reaction is like, no, this is me, this is what I'm going to do, you can't tell me what to do, that's not healthy. But if it's like, okay, cool, tell me what you'd like, let me see what I can do with that and maybe if it's not working, like there's a lot of times where like another instrumentalist might say, can you try to do this on your instrument? Coming from something that they do on their instrument. And your instrument sometimes just, it just happens not to work in that way. 

Like for example, we play stringed instruments, guitar or whatever, and like plucked stringed instruments, I'm not talking about bowed instruments. And we do have a limited amount of sustain. And there are certain things like that. 

So when suppose somebody comes, some person, like, for example, bowed instruments, they technically have like, they can sustain a note forever. And if they come and tell you, hey, like, can you play this for this long? But I'm like, I can't really because like, you know, this is the limitation of my instrument. Then I think you just need to have a healthy conversation with them and be like, hey, this is how my instrument works is the limitation of it. 

And that's why I can't do it. But you kind of need to have the patience to go through that with them and say that. And that leads to the best kind of output because once you realise the limitation of other people's instruments, and what you always can do in the context of other people's instruments, that's when you come together as a team. 

I have like a funny anecdote. Like, so the thing is, in one of the bands I play for, so I'm not going to name any of these guys, because I don't know if they want to be named. But the bassist has this really, he has this pet peeve against instruments having too much low end in them. 

For obvious reasons, it masks his thing in the mix, right? One time it's Pranav. No, it's not. He's very nice. 

So every time during soundcheck, what he does is he finished checking his sound. And he'll tell the engineer, so can you put a low cut on my keyboardist and also my guitarist? And we'll be like, bro, we haven't even done a soundcheck yet. He'll EQ our instruments for us. 

And so I was like, dude, like, you know, I understand that. But you know what, if you told me what I need to do, I could just change my playing so that it complements you. So and we had a conversation with him and like we did something really stupid in rehearsal. 

Like we went to our keyboardist and got masking tape and we put it on the last few octaves of the piano and we're like, we just wrote, don't play this. And we did that as a joke. But actually, you know, that helps a lot. 

Like when you realise, there's a bass player to fill this role, you don't have to worry about it. It actually frees you up. You know, you think it's a limitation. 

Oh, I can't play these notes because I'm going to clash with them. But no, actually think of it as you have somebody carrying that responsibility now that allows you to be creative in so many other ways. So I would say like that kind of conversation really opens up things as a band. 

For example, in jazz, people say, tell the guitar player and the piano player don't play the roots. Yeah, you guys play rootless voicings because there is a bass player to do that. And I think it's honestly the most constructive thing to have friction and have it resolve in a healthy way. 

I think that's the main thing. Like any sort of tension, as in in life, right? Any tension that resolves, right? Yeah, it's valid. Yeah. 

So you were talking about having months where there is no work. So I just wanted to talk about 

money. We know it's like difficult for life of a performer, performing musician. 

So how do you do it? How did you do it? Do you do other things apart from music too? Thankfully, I don't do other things apart from music. Although I would say if that's what had to be done, then I would do that. But I realised that you can't really pick and choose in this industry. 

Like, you kind of have to do like, it depends on what position you're at. The position I'm in, I feel like I will try to do as much work as I can and not be super fussy on, you know, is this what I want to do with my life? And I think I also realised very early on that a lot of musicians operate in a system where it's like, this I'm doing, these projects I'm doing for money, and these projects I'm doing for passion or like passion projects. And that's one way to make things work. 

You don't have to enjoy every single thing that you're doing. And I think the main, like, the first thing that you kind of realise, especially when you start doing this for work, full time, is that it's not always going to be fun. When it was a hobby, like for me, it was a hobby when I was in school. 

That's the thing that you do to get away from work. When it becomes work, your relationship with it changes drastically. Because it can also become a source of stress, right? And the only way to maintain a healthy thing with it is to have that detachment. 

And it's something I'm still figuring out, because there are months where I'm like, I don't want to do this, but I kind of have to. And like, I would be trying to look for other hobbies to get away from music. And I never would have thought that I would be in that place. 

But some months it's incredibly fulfilling. When I'm like, I can't believe that I'm lucky enough to be able to do this for a living. And I would say the main way to make sure that again, money, like, I'm a freelancer, the way that you make sure that you have what looks like a stable income stream, again, every month looks different. 

Because that's how freelance works. You don't have a fixed salary. So you can't really like somebody comes and asks me, hey, what's your monthly income? It's very hard for me to need a number. 

Because I'm like, these months are great. This month was not great. This month, these months are okay. 

Over time, like, if you do it for like two, three years, you kind of see a pattern. Especially in the live industry, there's definitely a pattern that is dictated by certain things, right? So it can even be like, for example, like, all of the wedding gigs that you do. So there is Adi Masam here, which is there is some they don't basically start any auspicious or new things in that month in that season. 

So it basically that leads to a drop in weddings, right? And so you see that pattern. And so I, you 

can start preparing yourself for like, okay, I know that this month is going to be a dry. So maybe I start saving in these months so that, you know, I can make it through here. 

And that's the kind of way to go about it is just knowing like trying to find a graph of like, what your year will kind of look like. And you don't know, it's just it's like predicting a harvest. So I'm just trying to save accordingly and, and be wise with how you spend your money, I would say is very important. 

Also, it's super important to have multiple revenue streams and try to acquire as many skills as you can. So I play guitar. Yeah, but like, that's one thing I do. 

I also do music production. I have a recording studio. So that's one source of income. 

I also know how to basically like I, there's random things that you can do, like, for example, like somebody might send you a vocal file to Melodyne. And that's, that's also work. Yeah, right. 

And that's something I know how to do. So that'll help me through a month that doesn't have gigs or something like that. Maybe my work for that month is just recording like day in and day out, like I'm just recording some band or recording some artists or whatever. 

Or it could look like this. Or it could be like I'm mixing a song for somebody or something like that. And all of these are skills that you acquire. 

And I don't and I think every skill that skill that you acquire kind of makes you better at the other thing. It's all like, because once you start learning how to mix, then you're like, oh, now I understand how all these frequencies work together. And it kind of translates into your live aspect. 

When you learn production that learn like that goes into your arrangement aspect when you're producing or like arranging a song. And the more you can acquire these skills, the more transferable they are also. And the more ways you have to basically make income. 

Do you like do stuff like saving and investing for the future type thing? Yes, I do. I do. Okay. 

So the thing is, like, that that was also very important. Because, again, there is no, like, we don't have things like we don't have the benefits of a corporate job. We don't have insurance. 

We don't have all that. So you have to take care of that. And you like basically saving for the future. 

Super important. Especially live. I don't know, like, I mean, it like I'm able to lug my guitar and my all my equipment and all of that and all of that at this age. 

It's great. But like, I already know people who have like back problems. Since you're saying this, do you like do like workout and stuff to deal with it? I wish I did. I just don't know how to work around like I was playing a three-hour show is not like easy. It's not easy like standing with your instrument yeah yeah and like you uh like coming out of the question when you asked how important is your gear to you one of the main uh aspects like that I think about when I buy gear also is this is just how am I going to take this on a flight how am I going to uh carry this like is it easy to and and I see a lot of guitar players right now transitioning to smaller and more portable things because eventually you kind of realise okay tone is one thing but like you know you can get great tone anytime but you can't get your back you know like not hurting it well said yeah so it's important I would say that's more important than all of this you know is just making sure you're healthy and making sure you're able to and the thing is like you asked about working out and all of that for me personally it's very hard to have anything be a routine just because my weeks look extremely different every like every week looks really different and my timings are all all over like I had a session till 4 a.m like yesterday so like I am already like you know I kind of woke up at noon and got ready and I came here but tomorrow it might be like an early morning shoot or something like that and so how do you deal with um like you know when people have the ability to say oh I'll go to the gym at this time every week or like these days in the week I'll go to the gym and I will do that or whatever I am very envious of them I'm like that's awesome dude because you have like time that you work and then you have time that you spend with family or recreational activities or workout whatever for me it's like I wake up I look at my calendar I'm like oh this is what is there today I will do this and then it just goes off so it's really random and that took a little getting used to like just how random your life is okay so you don't have a practise routine either uh I right now I don't have a routine okay I used to have a very strict like when I was doing the classical guitar thing in college so I was I was doing a very strict routine like it was again very geared towards that okay I would not say that like it was like you know PIME arpeggios and whatever whatever um when I got into performing and that's something that you realise is like when you get into performing you practise less and there's definite difference between playing and performing like it's not the same thing people like I mean practising and performing yeah like people like have told me like oh but you play every day that means you you are practising like you're maintaining no you're not because like that like you're supposed to suck when you practise yeah that's how you know you're doing it right yeah is that because only then you're like growing yeah you're supposed to do things that you can't do yeah if you keep doing the things that you actually can do and get paid for that's performing that's not really you growing isn't so for me right now practise looks a little bit different it's not I'm not going and playing my scales or arpeggios or something like that but for me practise is like now um hearing a guitar part that I like and picking that up and and for me it's a lot of transcribing I would say like listening to songs that I like and I'm like oh I really like how this guitar part locks in with the drums and I want to figure out how I can do that in another song in a different context like try to take a concept and try to internalise it so much that tomorrow when I play somewhere else 

it'll come out through me and I'll be able to use that somewhere else in that context that's what practise mostly looks like now and for me that's a little bit more useful than running my scales every day I will not I don't want to um say that that's not important yeah exactly like for all the people who are like you know alternate picking master class or whatever great awesome that's not for me like for me it's more about ideas like I want to be able to take as many ideas as I can and be like oh this is another tool in my toolbox which I can now use tomorrow okay and for me that's basically how it looks like I'm trying to learn things from songs and that's the most musical way for me to get practise yeah so you do both sides you do live and you do studio work do you have a preference and do you think there's something unique about life stuff life that is never there in a studio for sure um for the longest time my preference was studio work uh it was something I started out with right and for me the comfort like also it derives from my introverted kind of personality the fact that I could just sit in a room for hours on end with one laptop and headphones or whatever like when I started out and just do my thing and at the end like have a piece of music and doubt that was really fulfilling for me and I have nobody like judge me or nobody around me to like you know like it's a really safe space like studios in general it's like it's kind of I would say it's a controlled environment and for all the reasons that we discussed earlier soundcheck and all of that and stuff going wrong live is not a controlled environment right um and for me I was generally like I would say more innately uh like tuned to that tuned to studio work when I started getting into live it took me a long time to get out of that mentality of like this is like I mentioned earlier this is exactly how things are supposed to go and everything has to be super perfect and super but I like that's when I started realising what I kind of had missed out is that okay like if you if I see the pro of being in a studio and working on a session alone is that I'm alone in my own safe space and like whatever the con of that is not knowing the types of relationships that you can make with other people and the amount of growth that you get by being in a rehearsal room with somebody or on stage with somebody who's way better than you and you're like amazed at what they're doing and you're just like I need to do that like that's that's the easiest way to like improve your ability is just like go and be the worst musician in that room right because you get a real reality check and you go back home and you're like I need to do like I need to work on myself like this is not enough right and being in the studio that actually allows you to be a lot more uh I would say carefree like right now we have ways to like quantise performance like time correct performances pitch correct performances whatever and I'm like okay cool like if I don't get it in this take then I will get it in the 50th one like you know like but on live it's not like that it's just one time you have one shot and whatever happens in that one time is is what it is and for me it was basically reconciling the pressure of that but also being like it's okay yeah it happens it's fine it's the good thing about it is that it's it's it's at one moment it's okay it'll happen and then you have another gig the next day so for me um both are like incredibly different the way I play also is incredibly different like I think about a different way like when I was coming to live performance I was thinking in a very like I'm gonna I'm trying to play parts or like really uh fixed parts it works in some bands but a lot of times it doesn't work because like you need to react you need to react exactly that's the perfect word for it you need to react to some what somebody else is doing in a moment you can't just be like oh yeah in the pre-chorus like this is what I was going 

this is what I did on the actual song so this is what I'm going to do now yeah it doesn't work sometimes you might need to fill in for some other something not working also exactly yeah yeah it happens a lot like sometimes maybe a keyboard is other keyboard goes down or something like what do you do well you have to kind of you just have to do that and I think that somehow I I feel like being a live musician makes you better than being in the studio okay great you think like live performance and human live performance has a value in the coming future with all our digital world and instagram reels 15 second gratification so I find that a very interesting question something I've been thinking about a lot I feel like it the value of live performance is at a really high point right now because I feel like people want to have experiences and experiences together like for a long time like since the pandemic we had like an entire transition like for example let me take the film industry they had a transition to OTT platforms as opposed to going to the theatre together but now you kind of see people coming back to the theatres because you realise that going to the movies is not just it's not about watching the movie right it's about being in a room with people who also react to that movie yeah who laugh with you yeah who cry with you whatever and it's the same thing with music yeah I think it's even more pronounced in music because movie is a static experience exactly it doesn't react to you exactly and here you don't even know what might happen on stage right so it's like it's even better and right now I feel like like you said digital like as opposed to this like everything becoming digital if you see the trend now like a lot of artists are kind of releasing their music on vinyl on cd yeah you're seeing I meant digital in a in a more overall way not in the medium medium okay everything in the world is becoming like AI is definitely taking over jobs you can compose a song with AI oh man yeah it's becoming more and more real every day so that's that was what I was yeah but the thing is like for me what I like to see like what is great about uh going to a live concert is the imperfection right like whatever happens there between like musicians on stage and the musicians in the audience is something you can't replicate digitally or with AI or whatever like it's it's I'm saying now okay because I don't know like it's getting scary yeah like a year ago I was like yeah it's never gonna write a song like you know and now it does and I'm like I'm okay cool yeah um I feel like it's it's that's again also coming back to the thing that I was saying before like when you asked me is there something spiritual something beyond just you know for me this plays a role like you know this is where that comes in because I do feel like there is a connection that happens with between musicians and musicians and musicians and audience there is something beyond something that like if I've like for example if you see a video of a performance versus being at the performance when they performed yeah it's a completely different feeling you cannot get that same feeling by watching the video right it's not possible even if you go watch Coldplay's concert film in freaking IMAX or whatever you can't feel the same thing as being there with Chris Martin like actually singing in front of you and somehow those sound waves actually reaching your ear there is a different thing right so I think it has a really high value I think people are seeing that value right now and especially with uh how Coldplay has come here I feel like our concert economy in general is is going to boom that's my hopes I feel like that's my prediction because right now I feel like um of the scale because of the scale of that concert I think everybody including like the government and people from other industries are seeing how much for them 

it's like a money-based thing like how much revenue we can generate and so I think they really will consider it as a large-scale opportunity something somebody was telling me this the other day that finally I think in Mumbai or something they have they have a official like police protocol or something for concerts like okay on how to go about crowd control and how all of that which is a great thing like that is a step in the right direction which means they are like paying attention to the fact that this is happening on a large level so I think yeah it's going in a good good direction brilliant almost at the end if you have to think about it and say what is the essence of performance in one philosophy or one line what would it be man um you know it really forces you when when when it's at its best when it's done at a high level or at the very best it's the one thing that makes you be present and everyone be present and you share a moment with everybody right like everybody is perceiving that moment at the same time and feeling something whatever they're feeling and for me that that's the most beautiful thing about it is that like you can't ever get that back brilliant brilliant thanks thank you thank you so much it's been like a very very interesting conversation yeah all the best for your future endeavours thank you so much yeah i'm glad you guys are doing this thank you very much