ep 19 Ranjani Sivakumar - Performance is like a sport

Podcast Episode Description: The Inner Game of Performance: From Stage Fright to Shoonya

Carnatic artist Ranjini offers a deeply personal and reflective look at what it truly takes to step onto the stage, blending the rigor of sport and engineering with the art of musical expression.

In this episode, Ranjini details her evolution from an uninhibited child artist to an introspective professional, exploring the constant "tussle" between the personal space of creation and the public nature of performance.

Key Highlights:

• The Athlete's Mindset: Discover why Ranjini treats performance like a sport, embracing self-criticality as a vital tool for reflection and using concepts like muscle memory and iteration to perfect her craft without becoming stale.
• The Quest for Shoonya: Learn about the profound mental state of "shoonya" (absolute zero)—a goal of being completely present—and the battle against the "need for control" that prevents the artistic flow state.
• The Art of Preparation: Get an inside look at her structured process, from "Requirements Analysis" before a concert to the physical benefits of swimming and the centering practice of tuning the tambura.
• Dealing with the Unexpected: Ranjini shares her perspective on mistakes as necessary "aberrations" that allow for serendipity, and her major expectation from organizers: a profound understanding of sound and acoustics.
• Finding the Blend: She concludes with a powerful reflection on why her personal and performance identities "blend," and how the stage is ultimately a spiritual practice that helps her better know herself.

Whether you're a performer, an athlete, or simply seeking a deeper connection to your own work, this episode provides a unique map for transforming the art of performance into a journey of self-discovery.

Transcript

Hi, Ranjini. Hi. Thank you and welcome. 

Thank you so much. I am so happy you are doing this. This is a wonderful topic to have a mind map of so many people of what it takes to be on stage. 

Yeah, that is the idea. So, how did it all start for you? How did you? The music. Get on stage, not the music, I know. 

Yeah. So, getting on stage, I think I was, as a child, I was more fearless, but eventually through the process of growing up, I have become more, like if you had like a compass of extrovert to introvert, I was more extroverted as a child, but over the years, I have become more introverted. So, I have to tap into different parts of myself to put myself on stage, because stage, like you said in your intro, is about being present. 

While being present is a very good important thing for art, I also feel that performance art is so different in that you are creating, but you are also being watched. So, there is one very sort of voyeuristic feeling about you inhabiting a very personal space and being watched. Now, that can be comfortable for the extrovert kind of person, but for the introvert kind of person, that definitely takes a little bit of, it does put them in a certain level of discomfort, but they love what they're doing and they want to keep what they're doing. 

So, yeah, that tussle between doing something extremely personal, but making it immediately performance or so public to everyone. So, to answer your question, it started very young, but over the years, you have become a professional, you're making a career out of it. So, that graph is completely different. 

So, you were talking about over the years. So, how has your understanding of performance changed or evolved? See, as a child, and now, because I teach children also, I feel that as a child, you have, you're less inhibited, right? You have lesser, it's finally about expressing, right? Creating art, why do you create art? What is the purpose of creation of art? You do that to express. So, when, now, when self-doubt comes in, is like the biggest friction you will face when you create anything, right? As a child, you don't have it. 

Also, as a child, you are pardoned a lot of things and you get away because you're cute. But as you get older, you want to sustain and you want to play a game, right? So, for me, I feel like tuning into sport and the mentality of sport has been very helpful to overcome so many things because you said being self-critical, let's substitute self-doubt with being self-critical. I would say that being self-critical is a must because then you are not reflecting upon your art, right? Being self-critical is one way to reflect upon what you're doing. 

Otherwise, you're just putting things out there and that seems even at a point indulgent, right? Which is also okay, but being self-critical helps you sort of understand what you want to not do and what you want to present, right? So, there is a certain decorum that the stage demands. You can't just go. So, to reach that, so definitely as a child, you would do so many things, but as an adult, as you are processing the world and so many impressions of it, you kind of recalibrate your own self-expression and that need not be a friction, so to speak. 

It can be something that you understand. It's a way of understanding yourself. Also, being on stage, I think it's an absolutely beautiful way to know yourself, right? Knowing your fears and coming like extremely in touch with who you really are. 

I mean, given that you don't want to make it all performance and you want to show a piece of yourself, yeah. Okay, wonderful. Can you recall any like performance that you saw which has left an imprint on you? Someone else's? Someone else's So many, so many. 

So, as growing up, I mean, I performed the Carnatic form, but my father used to take me to watch a lot of Koothupattarai plays. So, I used to watch, I think Devika, I don't remember her name, but when I saw her plays, the raw energy of Koothupattarai, especially Koothupattarai, right? They'll just like form so many things out of, they won't have so many props. They'll just do it like with their hands and stuff. 

So, that very physical aspect of performance, not only in the Carnatic idiom, but outside of it, I think affected me or made a huge impression on me. But in the Carnatic idiom itself, I was a big, still am, a fan of Sowmya So, I used to watch her a lot. Like, I wear my watch on the right because of her. 

So, I watched her a lot growing up. So, she was definitely and still is someone I admire and look up to. Then, I've been very moved by TM Krishna Anna's performance in one, there used to be one like, again, one Kottai Madhuri, one shed kind of thing in Anna Nagar. 

And he sang, I think, Vazhimarai Thirukkiruthu. Apo, I remember being extremely moved by that performance. Then, so many, I mean, I've been to this festival called the Adha Festival. 

So, Adhila Kuda, there was this contact dance, two people did like a very contemporary form of dance. That made an impression. So, it's not always only in the Carnatic realm that you draw from. 

All of this, Sanjay Anna, so many performances of his have moved me. So, growing up in Chennai, of course, I mean, these are the artists you were watching. But also, now all of this I've said visually, right? But I have been always tasting or sampling or consuming art orally, because I've lived in hostels. 

So, for me, listening to like a random person's, National Programme, All India Radio. So, you'll listen to a, you won't even know that person's name, etc. But you will be listening to their Sitar recital, or their Carnatic Kacheri or whatever that is. 

I used to enjoy being orally present to a person's music. I still miss that. I think that, you know, there's a song, there's this video called the Radio Star. 

Somehow, somewhere, it, I'm not even saying like, it's for the good or for the bad. But this visual sort of has started trumping what is extremely an oral experience. So, sometimes I just wish it can be a deeply oral experience again for me, which is why I listen to a lot of things rather than visually sample it, which is also beautiful. 

I mean, it's a spectacle, right? You are witnessing a spectacle and that's okay. But when the picture is extremely only oral, then I think I like that a lot. I mean, it's a personal preference. 

Video Kill the Radio Star, by the way, was the first ever song on MTV. Really? Oh, what an ironic thing, right? Yeah. Hmm. 

Why don't you take me through your preparation process, assuming you have a show coming up? Yes. So, show, there are two types of it. I do one called the bird song, which happened to me, which came to me, the idea came to me during the pandemic, where definitely everything around us was silent and more quiet. 

So, already I was a birder. So, I started observing birds more. And I was also reading Anne Lamott's book called Bird by Bird. 

And around that time, I got like an invite to perform at Hyderabad Literary Festival. And I didn't want to do a Carnatic sort of concert. I wanted to sort of repackage it, like old wine in a new bottle. 

So, I started reading the book and that book helped me process thoughts. So, the book itself is about when you're overwhelmed with something, it can be something as simple as a school level assignment. But how do you reduce your various thoughts and streamline them into an organised manner, which will then become an actionable item, right? Also, because I'm an engineer, I think it helps me to think in a way to, when we do software, then there is this phase called requirements analysis. 

And then you code and then you do all of that, right? So, requirements analysis, I think it's an absolutely essential phase in any kind of soft thinking, right? Whether you prepare for a concert, whether you prepare for a game, like so many times, we have seen that people will watch the games of opponents to prepare their strategies, right? In sport. Aadhe maari, you need to know your material first. So, first thing is to understand the nature of your concert, whether it's something different, offbeat like birdsong, or it's something which demands a very Carnatic sort of heavy, I don't even want to use the word heavy, but the Carnatic melody space, yeah, traditional format. 

Or in that traditional format, you want to like, explore something from a different angle, etc. So, first thing is to know your material well, I think it is so elementary. But to know your, I mean, material well, which means that you do it over and over again, without it becoming stale for 

you. 

So, so many times, when I have discussed repetition, right? So, repetition on the often time, it's look down upon, like memorising something is like, oh, you just memorise and come there. Every iteration of something that you keep doing again and again, there is discovery, right? There is discovery and also there is this thing of where your breath starts to make friends with this particular idea. Right? Again, bringing a sports analogy, if somebody's serve is absolutely brilliant, they must have practised it so many times. 

But we don't say anything about memorising, they are memorising, they're building a muscle memory of that particular serve, right? So, when they hit it finally, or when they stage it finally, it comes with a certain sense of elan, right? At so many levels of preparation, with respect to a concert prep, I feel like it is akin to a process of an athlete or a sports person, right? So, first is knowing your material, first is organising your material, first is understanding the space where you present something, not the oral space, but I am saying like, who are the people who are going to come to listen to you. So, that does not mean you cater to them only, I mean, you definitely want to be honest to your own expression, you are just not only delivering a product, or it is not only consumer based, you want to build a bridge, right? You don't want to work in a silo, right? But most of art happens, the creation of art happens in solitude itself. And solitude is beautiful space to inhabit, for you to come out with your ideas fearlessly. 

So, having said that, know your material well, organise it well, understand the space that you are going to be presenting this finally at, whether this lands in such a space, whether that will land there, is a very important call to make. You can know gazillion things, but where to do what and you know, to be sort of not conform, but to know what will be liked in a certain place, and not lost, is I think, almost honourable to that piece, right? It's also that's also a separate art form in itself, no? To know what to say when, where, what, yeah, yeah. So, yeah, these are the things. 

And finally, on stage, going on stage, you can have all of these contingency plans. But every time going on stage, something will surprise you. Yes. 

Like, you can only be that prepared to be in the now, like, how do you prepare to be in the absolute present? You can have a mental makeup, but over and above that, being present is just a call of that moment, right? Even now is a second before, right? Yeah. So, how much ever I think, at a certain point is to have a certain, I watched this, I watched on Doordarshan la, I think Prasar Bharati or something. There was a documentary of Mallikarjun Mansoor, I want to say. 

So, he was talking about, so he said, and this is in Hindi, he said, So, to become an absolute zero, it's very difficult, because once you start preparing, preparing nalai enna, you want to have control over that situation, right? Adhukanti you can't not prepare and go, anga payi na inna vannalo, na payi wing panni duvena. That is also to a level dishonest, right? You need to know your material. So, where do you, in this sort of metre of things, where do you plant yourself, is very important. 

So, you should know everything, but then finally, when the moment come, you have to be that shoonya hona. So, allowing that all of that noise in your head to sort of come to a still place, where you can finally allow everything to all of this information that you have been gathering, to sort of come together and meld and become a music, right? So, all of that cognition is happening. And then it gets sort of crystallised into something that you are presenting as a performance. 

Wonderful. What about the physical aspects of preparation? Like, you like do some kind of voice training on the day of the show? Definitely, definitely. And anything that you do, eat or don't eat or drink or don't drink? So, yes, I think eating is so important in that. 

It is also important for sport, Arvind, in that they say the gut is your second brain, right? So, knowing your gut, what to eat, what suits you physiologically and each of us is different. To understand that one shoe will not fit all is I think, you have to be really thick not to get it, right? So, to understand yourself, which is why I said, there is one thing very luring and tempting about performance is that you get to know one more aspect about your own self, right? It could be what you can digest better. Or it could be something as simple as, you can be super Zen otherwise, but something will get on your nerves and push your buttons and you'll be like, where did that Zen go? Right? So, all of that. 

So, yes, understanding your gut, understanding what suits you and not copying someone, I think is very key to a good performance. I've known people who have downed a whole, I've read in books that they would down a whole mutton biryani and be able to sing like a big Ustad, but that may not suit you. So, you need to know what actually suits you. 

So, being really honest with yourself, I think takes you a long way that and then with blowing raspberries, I do that in any ragam that I am singing. I absolutely love that practise. Then trills, then just sitting with the tambura. 

So, another beautiful aspect about an acoustic instrument is that you get to sit and tune it and that centres you in a way that many things don't because everything else is a switch on and switch off, right? Like you plug and play, right? But with an acoustic instrument, it demands attention. It demands that you coax it. It demands that you sort of sit with it, be with it. 

That's a very beautiful way of bringing yourself to the present and dispelling all of the noise and arriving at a shoonya. So, I think the tambura is a very important canopy for the music itself and it's only a drone. Yeah. 

So, it's only doing the first, the tonic and the fifth, right? If you want to tune it that way, you could tune it any other way also to have your own picture of the music. That's absolutely fine also. But that act of tuning because of the voice, I mean, you've done your preparation, etc. 

But to sit and tune an acoustic instrument, I think is a very healthy way to come into being in the moment. Okay. Yeah. 

Do you get like stage fright and stuff? No. I'm happy to sing. Okay. 

So, I don't fear. I don't approach anything with fear. I approach many things with love and that's the way I go about things. 

Fear, no, not my sort of, what do I fear? No, it's not. Fear might not be the word. Maybe nerves. 

Nerves, definitely. See, so nerves also I've been thinking since you gave me this topic, I've also been like sort of reflecting, right? So, I also think some part of it is your control freakiness and how much you're willing to let go of it. Because how much can you control? In the Latin, there's this phrase called satiris paribus, all things equal. 

Then they'll state something. So, how do you handle that? Right? It's about your need for control, right? So, I also think again, it's a way to know yourself, the act of performance. And I'm sure it's similar for a person who plays any sport also, right? Because the antidote to all thought is action, right? So, I think that is very, I don't know what other word to use, but very humbling. 

You know, it showcases one very, it's like putting a tight mirror to your own sort of self, which I think is beautiful. So, nerves, yes, but nerves also I've been thinking, is it fright really? What do you fear? I mean, who are you fearing? I'm definitely not a people pleaser. So, that's what I'd like to think about myself. 

I don't know, maybe I'll find out another day that I am one. I don't know that. But all I'm saying is, I think I don't have fear. 

I don't have stage fright. But there is that need for control, which I want to let go. But not also be like, I'm okay with anything. 

You know, which, it's good to expect certain things to be a certain way. But how obsessive are you going to be about it? Because a situation will present itself as the situation thinks of it, right? Other than what are you going to do? Your being obsessive is almost like allowing yourself not to be in flow. So, you want to have a flow state on stage. 

So, how do you have a flow state when everything else is opposite current? Right? How do you flow? Then after some point, some parts in you have to relax and say, it's okay. This is what I got today. I'm going to flow with it. 

Right? That aspect of it. So, I would say that need for control, letting it go, but not also becoming a doormat and saying, I'm okay with anything. Since you brought up the topic of soundcheck, how elaborate is your soundcheck? Because in the past, I know that Carnatic musicians never did a proper soundcheck. 

And it's also not their fault. It's the way the concerts are organised back to back. Yeah. 

So, during the season, of course, it becomes very difficult. Because it's almost like one person is finishing and it's almost like a bait. And you don't have a soundcheck like before, right? We 

don't. 

And sometimes there's not even an informed person sitting at the console. Right? He is a person who's appointed to be there without perhaps the knowledge for it. He's a good guy. 

I mean, he's well-meaning. Right? He wants a good sound. But all he understands about sound is volume and amplitude. 

He doesn't understand nuance. And so much of what the art form demands is a nuanced presentation. And that is lost. 

So, whose loss is it? Yeah. So, somewhere the organiser, the sound guy, the artist, and it's happening now, like you said, in so many beautiful places, it's happening, one of them being Madras now. And so many beautiful places, they come together and so many people like I know another organiser, RK Ramakrishnan, who always sort of is curious about this mic, that mic, and he's constantly revamping the setup that he has. 

So, everyone's making that sort of friendship with tech. But going that one step further and having somebody who knows sound, because I know music, right? Even I, as a performer, how much do I know sound? I know sound because I've studied it like in college as part of engineering. But I don't sit, I don't, I don't combat it at a daily level, right? So, I'll only know so much about it. 

I know what I want to sound like. But do I know I won't know that. Exactly. 

So, having a sound guy at the sound console, I think makes a big deal of a difference. It puts everyone in comfort, you know. And when everyone is comfortable, then the expression is better, right? Yeah. 

So, yeah, that that. So, beyond skill and technique, do you think there is some other level like more profound, maybe even spiritual? Absolutely, yes. So, by accident, okay, I stumbled upon this movie called Borg versus McEnroe. 

So, 1980 Wimbledon match, which is like everyone knows this. I've seen the match also. They've taken the movie out of OTT. 

I just wanted to like watch it again, right? So, my party was like a big tennis freak. Like she'd like do pooja and all for Federer to win on a level, okay? And Agassi autobiography published. She was like, I shouldn't have done that. 

So, because of her, I know tennis. I don't follow the game. But I like Bjorn Borg's mental makeup a lot. 

I often think of his mindset, right? And that movie is amazing because it is the clash between two different mental spaces. Right? One is very flamboyant. One is very sort of reticent and sort of quiet and still on the outside. 

So, we don't know what's going on the inside. I'm attracted to those kind of people or their minds. Like I'm like curious about inhabiting that part of your mind palace, right? The quiet, still, maybe mad. 

I don't know. Maybe insane. But the front, the facade of it is very icy. 

So, on the movie, his resting heart rate, obviously, because he's training so much, it is 35. So, that's something I keep thinking about. So, mental makeup of a person. 

I think sports gives you so much fodder for that. What would it have been for him? And also the beauty of winning so many things and giving it all up. You know, maybe some personal. Yes. So what does it take? Was it a burnout? It's, it's like my 

favourite thought, sort of bubble to revisit. 

Thirumbi, thirumbi I'll be thinking about him. That is one space I like. Then I also stumbled upon an interview of Vishwanathan Anand's wife. 

Where she said, chess is a game where you sit and play. But it's an absolutely to sit for that long. Yeah. 

It takes you immense physical preparation. Because after a point, maybe you don't want to sit that much. Yeah. 

Right. Yeah. So the preparation is actually extremely physical for some game like chess. 

So then you can bring that parallel even into music. How prepared are you? After a point, are you going to slouch and be like, Oh, God, I can't sit for some time. So to be physically fit, I think is very important for anything that you want to do. 

And not get into an obsessive level of physical fitness. But to be fit enough to do what you want to do, the way you want to do without becoming tired mentally, or having a physical fatigue, as and when you're doing it many, many, many times over and over again without getting bored. So all of that, I think, physical fitness helps you. 

For me, it is swimming. So being in water, the embrace of water, I find it extremely calming and also because I guess, it has to do so much with breath. Yeah. 

Because to stay afloat, you just have to be so in touch with the way you breathe. So that is my space I go to for physical preparedness. Okay. 

Yeah. Okay. But you answered a future question of mine. 

The question I asked was, do you think there's something more profound or spiritual? Yes. That is why I brought up Beyond Work. Okay. 

Yeah. Why? What? Because that level of the beauty of that game that he played was very, very different, right? So I think that is spiritual, the mental space that he would have inhabited. See, what is religion also? Religion. 

So there's this book by Charles Seafy. I don't know if I'm saying his name correctly. He's a mathematician. 

So in that, I think it's called Zero. It is called Zero. I don't think it's called Zero. 

It is called Zero. So in the introduction, he says, the questions of religion and mathematics, and I'm paraphrasing here, are the same. It's about absolute zero and absolute infinity. 

Two things that are unfathomable. I mean, fathomable, but not realisable. Absolute zero, concept-wise, what is an absolute zero? Absolute infinity. 

So even if you see that story of, you know, the expanse of Shiva, they'll put a flower, one will go down, one will go up. So I see it as zero and infinity. Right? So that thing, in that space, I think it's absolutely spiritual. 

Anything can be. You know, like how Philip Larkin, there is this quote that says, before enlightenment, I was chopping wood. After enlightenment, I'm still chopping wood. 

On the level of equanimity, it demands equanimity of you, right? So in that sense, yes, I think it's a very spiritual practise. Anything can be. So how does your identity or your personal history inform your performance? Does it? Like trauma and stuff? I don't know what you're asking. 

No, like who you are. Oh, as a person? As a person. For me, I don't have like a performance face and a personal face. 

There is no dichotomy. For me, they blend. What I am is what I will present. You're not like a different person. I'm not a different person. I'd like to believe. 

I don't know. On stage, you're the same. Some things I know, some things an observer sees and they know. 

They may be, no, you're more like this when you're this or whatever. Right? So yeah, for me, I would like the both to coexist and beautifully blend. Yeah. 

You practise and perform a music which is highly improvisational in nature. What is the balance between improvisation and rehearsal and planning and doing perfectly? Yeah. So you do leave. 

See, when we talked about iteration and memorising things, I don't think we memorise the improvisation parts, because then that can become too much of cookie cutter kind of music. And you will not surprise yourself, which is why I said iteration without becoming stale. Right? The minute you lose wonder for something, your sense of wonderment goes, be it even a piece. 

Right? Sometimes you will sound absolutely beautiful the first time you've done it. There is the magic of firsts. Right? So, but in your chase of excellence, perfection, whatever you want to call it, being better, you sometimes may lose that certain crack in a voice that happened in the first iteration. 

Or the first magic that was there, because it was new to you, you were meeting it as a new 

person also. How do you keep that going for you? So it's a very personal, everything is, but it's a very personal thing to know that you don't want to lose wonderment of what you're doing. So to keep yours, a part of you, I want to use the word protected, I think is very important. 

Like how much of you are you willing to share as a person to protect your solitude? I think it's a very important feature for me. Like I, I would love to spend hours and hours alone with myself. And that doesn't mean I don't like people. 

It's just that that's how I know me. So then I get to perform better that way. So yeah, like that. 

How do you deal with unexpected things like screw ups that happen? Maybe on somebody does mistakes or something goes wrong in the auditorium? So my, my major peeve is the sound. Mistakes are it's okay. I mean, I see it's also not that one concert. 

See, that is what I'm saying. Where does it become obsessive and control freaky? And where does it become like a journey? Do you see your music as being a journey for yourself? Because every performance is not crystallised, right? It is a very live thing. And if you're going to put so much pressure on that poor life thing, that life thing is also feeling a little bit stifled, right? So then how do you allow that life thing to breathe? Mistakes is part of it. 

I mean, if you want to call it a mistake, right? It's an aberration. It's okay. I think it's absolutely okay to have an aberration. 

It's the process of discovery, which means you are being spontaneous on stage, which is a very honest thing to do, rather than like crystallise everything, just bring it there. Also, it's a beautiful way of allowing something serendipitous to happen. So if you made a mistake, maybe you'll be like, okay, I'll get up, dust my bum and run again. 

But in that process of doing it again, you may surprise yourself also. So if you are willing to deal with this end of serendipity, you'll have to make friends with that end of aberration also. What's your connection with the what's your relationship with the audience? Yeah, I am a little in my space. 

I'm not a very, I won't smile and I've been told that I keep my eyes too closed. So I've been working on that. Maybe the parts that I improvise, I'll close my eyes, but the parts that are, so there is kalpitam and manodharmam, two broad wings of the Carnatic music spectrum. 

So kalpitam means it's already there. So some parts of the music which are your singing are already created. Some manodharmam means like the word itself, the etymology of the word itself is, is your own like dharma, like it's what you think, self expression. 

So I've tried to change my sort of thing from the feedback I got that when I do the manodharmam, I want to shut off and I want to close my eyes. But when it's kalpita sangeetam, I do try to communicate perhaps the lyric. But I keep my eyes open. 

But otherwise I'm given to just keeping my eyes shut, which I'm trying to change. You think the audience specifically has a role or a responsibility even to? Absolutely. Yes. 

Somebody is like a little head shake or something may motivate you or may encourage you to try something. So definitely. Otherwise, then what is there in a live performance? There is that raw energy, which is there is a chemistry which is palpable, right? So you have to listen to the audience also. 

Is it an absolutely passive role that they play? No, I think they play quite an active role. Silently, though. In that a nod or even like a squirm is like, oh, what did she just do? That too is a feedback, right? So yeah, I think you have to be witness to it. 

So do you react to this feedback? Yeah, I think you do. I think I'm not that like, stoic to say I don't. What about some critic writing something? That's okay. 

That's okay. It's an opinion. So you don't like, you don't like, take it in and see if it is worthwhile. 

No, I will try to understand why they say what they said, even if it's like a negative. It's okay. That's what they felt. 

But that's their idea of a music, right? So do that means there is a miscommunication in the way I want to ideate and they want to perceive an idea, right? So if you process it well, then you can understand how to bridge it. And I don't think anyone is so acerbic. There are people who know how to give it. 

But certain things, yes, I can become very angry. Like if someone, if I meant a certain thing, and they perceived it differently, and they told me and this is only with my parents, because they know exactly the buttons to push. It's like that. 

And then everything, everywhere, all at once. What do you expect from an organiser? What do you think? Good sound, yeah. Just good sound. 

Just good sound, really. For them to focus on the aural or the soundscape of the place. That's it. 

I think everything else will fall into place. If that one thing was there, because you're doing it finally for the, for the experience, right? If that sound itself is amiss, it will be very difficult to sing in some places. And also it's an occupational hazard because you are exerting yourself a different way to be heard in the way that you would like to be heard and therefore you sort of overdo something or something and you spoil your voice. 

The voice is your device, right? So it's your instrument. So the upkeep of it means that you do expect a certain level of sound. So yeah, sound. 

Okay. Yeah. A good sound, understanding of sound.
 Yeah. And to be professional. If I'm going to be professional, you be professional. 

Don't ask me some strange questions. I've had super strange questions being asked. Like? So, no, I don't want to get into that. 

No, you don't need to tell names. Like, this is not even like, oh, you're married already. So, so in the space, but there are those and there are those, right? I mean, if I worked in a post office, there would be those people there. 

And the other kind of people also, if this exists, that also exists. And if they're putting up with me, I might as well put up with them. So I'll get the job done. 

But definitely you want everything to be pleasant for each other and accept each other's differences. Right? Yeah. You had like, you talked about these two things. 

Any other like, challenges being a female artist? I don't know, safety and biases. And how much influence a person will have to impregnate your thought and your piece is something that to a large extent, you own, right? You allow a certain person to get into your mental, space, because that is where you're creating from. Yeah. 

So, yeah, I think having a healthy boundary really helps. Yeah. So it is very difficult for a performing artist to make a living financially, unless you're like, right at the very top. 

Right. So how, how has it been for you? How do you manage? How do you what advice can you give to Live frugally. Understand what things are important to you. 

But I also come from a different design of lifestyle. So I'm able to shoot my mouth like this. But I don't have so many of the dependent situations that many other people may have. 

So then for them, it's a business, right? It's a business for me too. I'm not here to just shoot my mouth. But certain things, everything is a bill, right? And electricity is a bill. 

No bill is going to come and say, no, you're an artist, you have to pay. So, I think the organiser should understand that you have to remunerate a person, understanding that this is their livelihood. Right? Yeah. 

For me, luckily, I have during the pandemic, been able to have other sources of income, because I also work in software, which I quit. But that's not like my main, that's not on the front burner. But I'm able to do certain things, which make the bills, which are able to pay the bills. 

But I wish that wasn't the case. I wish that wasn't the case. Yeah. 

So sometimes I do feel like I'm burning both ends of the candle. Yeah, I know. It's tough. 

What is the, what's your opinion on like external stimulants, like drugs and alcohol and performance? Yeah. So see, for a vocal artist, the voice is your instrument. And see, alcohol, we know, dries up your vocal cord. 

The more wet your vocal cord is, the better it is, the more hydrated, right? So therefore, that is out of question. So that is, it doesn't work. So some, like, so going back to a question you asked before, like, you're understanding your gut. 

For some other person, it may work. See, physiologically, that's what I'm saying, right? Physiologically, for somebody else, it may work. So for them, it's okay. 

Again, smoke, the same, be it weed or be it like, even a pack of cigarettes, you know, it's going to harm you. So after a point, why would you sort of inflict that harm upon you? Harm, meaning what? You want to work at a certain level of efficiency. So every morning I swim. 

So nightly, I can't have a biryani, because I'm sluggish in water when I go for a swim. And I love swimming. And I love to do it at a really nice sort of flow way. 

So what I put into me will help me be more in flow now. I want that thing. So sadly, I wish there was a good, because it does work at a nerve level, it does loosen you up a bit. 

So it's very good. But I wish there was, there was, it didn't come with the side effects. Yes. 

So you have to make that choice. It's a personal choice, right? Whether you want it or don't want it. I'm not saying like, I'm not even like going to like, oh, it's morally incorrect. 

I'm not saying that. You just need to know you, you need to know your physiology, you need to know what it works for you, if it works for you, well and good. But if it doesn't... Performing arts is full of stories of people who never got on stage when they're like sober. 

So those have also been there. Yeah, true. Maybe it worked for them, right? Maybe that's how they calm their nerves, right? So for me, it's 40 laps in a pool. 

So then I need pool access. So what do you think is so unique about a live performance that you can't get in a recorded medium? The beauty of that, like I said earlier, that palpable chemistry, the beauty of mistake. So we're going towards an AI sort of situation where everything that we do is manicured to a certain way. 

So each of us is not the same. Each of us is special. Each of us is unique. 

Each of us has a different expression. Each of us at each time has a different expression. So to be witness to that, I think is the very essence of being alive. 

So that is what a live performance brings to you. Not for yourself also, for the witness also, for the observer also, is that they're able to be absolutely in the now. And why would you want to trade that for something that has been crystallised? So we are living now in this highly digital world dominated by 15 second so-called performances, 15 seconds, 30 seconds, and like technologies like AI coming in. 

What do you think, what is your hope? Do you think there's a future for live performance and 

human live performance? Do you think people are going to... But after the pandemic, whenever we've had, we've been able to monetise our concerts in Hyderabad, I speak. We're seeing a trend and we have numbers and stats for it, that people come, they buy tickets, they want to watch. So people also like people, right? They want to enjoy something together. 

That's another thing of a concert, that together enjoying-ness. You have another, you have this bonhomie of people. People are like, I don't know what they're checking out. 

To each his own, right? But each one is being, they're being a gang together. I think that is another thing they like. They make friends once they do the concert circuit. 

I'm talking about the audience. So all of that is important to a people. I think the sense of community, the sense of even like sitting and gossiping about a concert or like saying, trashing that concert, all of it, all of that, that comes with it. 

The good and the bad. I think people like to hang with people. So that thing is also a beautiful situation. 

Wonderful. We are almost close to the end. If you want to like summarise, what is the essence of performance? Performance, like you said, is being in the now, being absolutely present and stilling your mind in a certain way to become that shunya hona. 

Is it possible? Do we nearly reach it? Maybe at times in a three hour performance, we have glimpses of it. Sometimes we are fully there. I don't know what it is, but that absolute zero. 

I think it's a very spiritual process. You have like a favourite venue that you played in and any dream venue? Saptaparni. Saptaparni in Hyderabad is my favourite venue. 

And shout out Tanvi Sound and Light Systems. I really like them. They do the sound for us in Saptaparni. 

They're really beautiful to work with. Anil Thiru, Bandila, all of them. And dream venue. 

I've seen someone play in this like a dome sort of structure in Auroville. He's playing piano. Aman Mahajan. 

I don't know where that hall is, but it looked interesting. It looked, I think he didn't mic himself also. Yeah, that is one venue I've seen and I've been like. 

So this MS of Lakshmi Auditorium also, they don't mic. They do Carnatic concerts. Yes, I've heard. 

But I haven't been there, so I don't know it. But I saw a video of Aman playing and I was like, wow. It's in Auroville, right? Yeah, he does a lot of work in Auroville. 

Oh, okay. So that is something I'd like to sit and sing in. Then any older temple, like not the 

Hampi of now, but the Hampi of earlier, where it was a little more hippie vibe. 

So, we would just like take this TVSXL and like drive around and just go to different ruined temples. The temples are in better upkeep now. Temples of the structures, but it has lost that sort of, like there'll be like these places where bats will be hanging, etc. 

But you sit and perform the acoustics of that place is very, very beautiful. So things like that. Then there is a very interesting location called Taramati Baradari. 

Baradari means 12 columns. So it is built atop a hill. A king built it for the singer back in your, for him to hear her. 

This is a palace where you can like clap in one place and you hear it at another. So if that is possible in sound many years before, why can't we do some basic sound things now to make every place more resonant, more friendly and pleasant in experience, especially in the oral scape. Brilliant. 

Brilliant. Thank you so much. Welcome.
 Thank you. Good luck. Thank you.