Ep. 18 Sanjeev T - the rockstar

In this episode of Stage Matters, we sit down with Sanjeev T.—a powerhouse guitarist, composer, and music director known for his work with icons like A. R. Rahman and Sid Sriram.

Sanjeev dives deep into the philosophy of live performance, sharing insights from his journey from being a young Bee Gees fan to a global touring musician. He discusses how his understanding of performance has evolved from raw expression to a complex mix of diplomacy and science when sharing the stage with a major artist.

Transcript

My guest today is someone who I've known for a long long time and whom I've referred to as rock star for a long long time. He's a guitarist, a composer, music director and he's played with the likes of A. R. Rahman, Sid Sriram. He's Sanjeev T. Hi Sanjeev, welcome to Stage Matters. 

Thank you for having me. So let's get right into it. How did you get into performance? Yeah, so I started early, meaning learning guitar as a kid, like when I was eight and then obviously as all parents, you know, they'll let you perform in these, what do you call it, I was born in Kuwait, so there were these Indian associations like Malayali Association, so they'll have programmes and then, you know, my dad used to push me to perform there or even at school functions and things like that, so that's how it started. 

But I think I really enjoyed or understood what performance meant, that was probably when I was in college in N.A. So, you know, I used to take part in all these, the competitions there like the IIT Sarang and all that. So that's when I really, you know, so because back then I never thought that I would be a musician, a professional musician, but then I think doing this and taking part in these competitions and being around musicians and, you know, that's when I realised like this is the life for me and, you know, I should take a shot at being a musician. So, yeah, that's how it started. 

Can you recall like some kind of a perpetual performance that you witnessed as a kid and that made you want to say that what I would do? I think when I was a kid or growing up, yeah, I think when I was four, around four is when my dad realised that I had a thing for music because my dad used to be a huge fan of the Bee Gees and ABBA and bands like that and so back then he saw me super interested in the Bee Gees, like I wouldn't eat food without seeing the Saturday Night Live, you know, concert and so I used to be glued to the TV watching Barry Gibb play the guitar and, you know, sing and, you know, so I think Bee Gees was my first inspiration, I would say, as a kid and then obviously later on in school, especially, I mean, there was a war in Kuwait, so I came to Kerala and again went back to Kuwait and then back by the time I went back to Kuwait, it was the era of grunge, so then I was fully influenced by Nirvana and Pearl Jam bands and that even there was a whole metal phase and things like that, so yeah, I mean, those were my initial inspirations. So, like, how has your understanding of performance evolved from your initial days to now? Now you're touring the world and... Yeah, I mean, definitely before, I mean, when you really get into it, you think that it's, it could be easy, but then as you, and then when you perform for yourself, it's something else and you perform for somebody else, you know, that is a totally different experience and being with people or like performing with people like A.R. and Sid right now, the magnitude, the level of performance is so much, so you have to be at your best and you have to be at a certain level professionally and also on stage. So, I think there are a lot of things that go into having a great performance from, you know, preparing before you go to stage, that is one thing and while you're on stage, what 

you got to do and how you got to, you know, still be with the band, play with the band, that is, you know, something, you know, so different. 

Of course, when you play for yourself, I feel there's probably, and when you're leading your band, that is another, like, you know, way of thinking things because you have a certain freedom of how you can direct the performance, but when you're performing for somebody else, you will have to make sure that you give it your best, but at the same time, you don't overshadow the main artist and, you know, where to, you know, step back and when to step front and forward. So, I think there's a whole science to performance depending on the situation you're in. There's also diplomacy involved. 

Definitely, yeah. I mean, and that would depend also in your relationship with the people and, you know, so, yeah. So, I want to talk about preparation. 

How do you prepare for a concert, say, or having a big show coming up? What are your, do you have, like, some processes? I make sure that I, before, like, travelling there to the show, I make sure that I practise and I make sure, you know, I know the songs well and so that it doesn't look like, I mean, I'm learning the song when we're jamming and things like that. So, I mean, that would be very unprofessional. One sec. 

When I play with either AR or Sid, we go to the destination, we go to the place that we're performing and we practise over there before the shows and then we have a technical also before the show, things like that. And then, of course, we might change things a bit just before the show also. So, kind of noting those points down and making sure that, you know, that I remember those things because usually, sometimes when we jam, you creatively come up with ideas which are new and fresh. 

Then, sometimes, you might not remember that idea again when you're asked to play that again. So, I make sure that, you know, it's written down and so that I don't, you know, I don't forget it on the day of the performance. But apart from that, just before the show, I kind of do like a, I kind of be with myself, maybe meditate a bit, you know, and then just try to hype up with my bandmates and, you know, and I always tell myself before a show, I should play a show like it's my last show. 

Like, so I feel that I should give everything that I have for every show. And yeah, that's how I try to, you know, give the best that I can. But sometimes, it doesn't work like that. 

Is that even possible? It's possibly not possible. And sometimes, you might even give better than your best. So, you never know what happens. 

Because it all depends, right? I mean, like, if one bandmate is feeling a little down during the performance, I think all of us will feel that. And sometimes, it affects each other also. Like, for example, I've seen this when I do this with Sid. 

If I feel that Sid is having a moment of down, I feel that even that kind of reflects to me, even I 

feel it and I also kind of go down that path. And then it's about, it's up to you to like, you know, tell yourself, like, you know, let's not go down that path. You know, let's, you know, make things back where it was and maybe hype Sid a little bit more or maybe look for that energy coming back from him so that I can feed off that or you feed that energy from which the crowd is giving you. 

It all depends. Now, for example, you might have a great performance and the crowd is not probably giving you as much as energy as you would expect. So, those are times where you have to keep telling yourself that, you know, it doesn't matter whether you're getting that energy, it's what matters is that you give in your best and you know, you and especially you give that energy back to your bandmates because that is crucial. 

Playing together and feeling it together is kind of crucial. Yeah. So, as part of your practise, do you have like any kind of like things that you, a diet or something that you would not eat during the day of the show or some form of exercise or something? Yeah, I mean, usually I think us, especially touring musicians have weak stomachs. 

So, we tend to like not overeat or eat too much or things like that. But otherwise, no diet, just the usual diet that I usually, you know, go with. Nothing special before the show and things like that. 

I mean, before, I think when I was younger, I used to get a little high and go on stage. Yeah, I was going to come to that. I have gotten high a lot of times in my previous performances. 

But then now I think I prefer not to, I think, because, you know, you never know. And also, it depends on the gig also. It depends if your bandmates are like, okay, you know what, let's just go for it. 

Let's get high and like do it. I mean, then I'm okay. But otherwise, when it's like professional to a certain level, and when you're like, you know, you're responsible for like, say 20,000 people in front of you and you know, you don't want to see if you make a mistake when you're not high, it's still okay. 

But when you make a mistake when you're high, then people can blame it on the high. So, you don't want that to happen. So, that doesn't happen anymore. 

So, you absolutely have stopped like playing under the influence. Yeah, yeah, definitely. Yeah. 

Unless it's like a more informal kind of gig where, you know, things are okay to be that way. Okay. Do you think there's something spiritual in the act of performance, like beyond skill and technique and communication of an idea? Definitely. 

I mean, like I said earlier, when a band, when you're performing with your bandmates, there is a certain telepathy, there's a certain energy that we feel with each other. And there's a certain energy that you feel with the crowd. And your energy would depend on all of these factors. 

And so definitely, it's a spiritual experience, you know, so because it's not definitely only up to you. It's a lot of factors that will influence your performance and how you feel and how another person feels, how the crowd feels, you know, so you can be spiritual on a lucky day, and on another, on an unlucky day, you know, things might not work for you. And, and so I mean, that's how I think spirituality and creativity all works that way, right? I mean, one day, you might have a lot of ideas, and the other day, you might be just drained out and have nothing to offer. 

So I think it works with performance. How important is the soundcheck process to you? And what do you look for? What do you like to hear? Definitely super important, very important to have a good engineer who understands your sound and who translates it the way you want it outside because you might hear it one way inside, but you never know how it sounds outside. It's only when you see videos later of the performance that you know whether the engineer actually translated what you wanted. 

So soundcheck is definitely important. I used to be completely analogue before, you know, I used to have a heavy analogue gradient like that. But then now it's become completely digital because it's just more comfortable, especially when you travel. 

Yeah, yeah. So especially when you travel with like, analogue gear, so many things can happen and go wrong. And I've had such experiences where just before the concert, nothing is coming out of my guitar, it must be just one wire that connects, you know. 

And so I didn't want to have that headache that like tension just before the concert. That's the last thing that you ever want to, you know, feel. And so because of that, you know, I completely shifted to digital now. 

So things are easy. So like, for example, I don't need to and even you'd never know what kind of equipment that you get in that particular venue, like amps, they might bring great amps, but what shape are those amps in? So it's too many factors to factor in. And so that way, I think the being digital helps and you know, it's free and you know what you're getting. 

And you don't have to depend on any outside equipment. It's just between you and the engineer and, and if you're constantly doing gigs, one by one, I mean, one after the other, you know, it's just like plug and play kind of thing. So nothing to worry about too much. 

But yeah, soundcheck is definitely important. But then, you know, anything can go wrong, even those cases, because I've had many gigs where I sounded great during the subject, but as soon as it starts, it's like, what the hell is happening? This is not how I heard myself or even the others. Because that is also equally important. 

I mean, not only just you sounding good, but then how are the others sounding for you? Yeah. And yeah, I think sometimes I mean, before maybe say 10 years ago, we used to, you know, rely on monitors and things like that. But now everything is in ear like that. 

I feel sometimes monitors were so much more easier, because and, and you feel like you're 

playing in a you can feel that energy when the you know, yeah, you can hear from your amps and from your monitors, you know, the louder it is, the better for you. But, and in ears can sometimes and especially now when people play with click and things like that, you know, so it's not the same feeling. But then, of course, there are advantages to playing the click, for example, when you see the performance later, then you see, wow, we were on time. 

And then it sounds like the record also, you know, but then I feel sometimes being analogue and seeing, you know, just playing it raw from monitors and amps, you know, the feel of that is so different. Sometimes it makes the performance so much more enjoyable. But then it's okay. 

I mean, you know, it's still okay for click is there. What about backing tracks? Or do you like playing with sequences and stuff? Oh, no, I mean, I mean, it depends. Like, for example, when I was with AR, there were a lot of backing tracks, because simply because his music is all over the place, right from Punjabi to ballads to it's like, too many changes and you can't have such a big band having so many instruments. 

So that time we used to have backing tracks. So I mean, obviously, I don't prefer it too much, unless it's just tracks enough to push it a bit. But then what I like about SID, for example, we have mostly live, I mean, most of the songs like 90% is live. 

It's just that some, we have some, like we call it like the electronic section, maybe where there are track driven songs. But then that's cool, because it'll be completely different genres, like maybe a drum and bass or, you know, some kind of like electronic vibes. So like, you know, you kind of blend, try and blend in, you know, that vibe. 

So that's cool. I mean, it's cool when it's limited. When it's excessive, it's like you feel sometimes you feel that, you know, you're not contributing enough or, you know. 

What's your opinion on people like lip syncing and doing plus ones? I mean, that definitely shouldn't happen. But I feel a lot of our biggest acts are doing that. And that's why also like, for example, in the case of SID and all that we don't, we don't play even about functions or things like that. 

Because when it comes to those kind of functions, it's all lip sync. So yeah, definitely wouldn't like to perform for a lip sync show, if it ever came to me. And that shouldn't be, I mean, that's not the purpose of being live, right? I mean, the purpose of performing live is for people to see something different. 

And to hear something different than what they used to from the record or whatever. And the beauty of live is, it can go anywhere. It's all up to you how different you want to make it. 

And even the mistakes and even all those technical glitches can actually turn into something beautiful. You're actually preempting my question. So yeah, man, I mean, I mean, that's the beauty of live, right? I mean, I feel a lot of audiences don't understand this. 

And I feel the culture of live music is truly, it's not as popular as it was. Maybe I mean, see, when you look at the big picture, yes, people talk about Coldplay coming and the economy of the live music economy is huge. And I mean, that's great. 

It's good for press to write. Yeah, but then I think being what we have to focus is definitely the local talent. I mean, I mean, that is what is important. 

And that is truly the flavour of the region. And, you know, and to truly experience that flavour, you definitely need to be live and not do an acting job of things like that. What role does improvisation play in your craft in your performance? How much you like to have planned stuff as opposed to improvise stuff? I mean, when it comes to me, when people hire me, also, they know that they are hiring a person who doesn't follow the bill to the T. Like when it comes to solos and things like that, I never learn a solo exactly. 

It's never going to be the same. I always improvise, every solo will be different. Of course, we follow the structure of the song and the chords and things like that. 

But that also there are there are always opportunities to change it a bit. Like, you know, you might be trying out something and you might like it. And you might just play that for the rest of the song. 

Yeah. And then it sounds different. Yeah. 

And so I'm like fully into I mean, that's my thing. Because that's what I look forward to also I mean, because those things happen even when we jam in the practise room. And sometimes we I take those improvisational ideas that I got during jamming. 

But sometimes those ideas don't follow up to the show. So those again evolve into something else during the show. And so that's that's the beauty of it. 

And definitely when I perform with my own lineups or things like that, it's like completely improvisational. And that's what I expect. And when it's my own show, I expect that from my bandmates also. 

So because I think that's the fun of it all. And I feel that's what makes it interesting. Because otherwise, if we were to play like, say 10 shows together at a stretch, yeah. 

And if it all those 10 shows were the same thing, I think I would have been bored of this job a long time ago. So what is your relationship with the audience? What do you see them as? Do they have a role and a responsibility in this whole equation? Definitely. Yeah. 

Of course, if you're high, then it doesn't matter. You'll give the audience the finger. But then, so I mean, yeah, so when you're when you're sober, I mean, this is something that I've noticed with myself that I don't like to see audiences to the eye, like eye to eye, it kind of distracts me. 

And so that's to avoid that eye to eye contact is why I wear my shades for my shows. It kind of 

feels like, you know, I'm guarded, you know, it's just an emotional, whatever, a makeup. So, so I prefer not really looking eye to eye to the audiences, but then definitely you notice things, especially when people are like, you know, hyping you up or like, you know, cheering for you. 

Those are things I definitely notice. And then I kind of indulge also, when I see those things, like, for example, if I see someone cheering for me or for the band, I go up there, you know, try to indulge and like, you know, be part of their celebration. So that is definitely there. 

But yeah, I mean, the audience is definitely key. I think every band kind of feeds from that energy that the audience gives you. So I mean, you can see that everything like, it depends also, like, for example, as simple as if I were to perform in Chennai versus I perform in Bangalore, it's so different, because the audiences are so different. 

I feel Chennai audiences could be more educated, maybe. But that also makes room for them being more critical, and probably not enjoying the music, but rather critiquing the music more than, you know, listening to it or just feeding off. So I feel that is very different. 

Like when I performed in Bangalore audience, because there is a culture of music and enjoying with music, I feel the audiences are different. So I think in every city, or in every place, the culture is different. And so the audiences are different, you know, so you can definitely see that, that difference between audiences. 

So I feel even at the school, I mean, this is something they always tell people that more than educating students, or the young people are, I think our aim should be to educate the audiences, because without good audiences, we can't have good performances or shows or a culture of you know, live music in anywhere. So I feel that is important. I mean, audiences, I feel should listen to more than mainstream music, and to accept all kinds of music. 

That's a very good point. Yeah. So I think we should, and that the only way that they can be exposed to music, which is non-mainstream is by them, by encouraging them to be part of these local performances, which are, you know, which kind of give them a variety of, you know, genres of music, and they kind of understand, okay, oh, jazz is like this, or, you know, African music is like this, whatever, you know. 

So I think that is important. So I feel the more the audiences are exposed to different kinds of music, that makes it easier for us musicians to, you know, express our art to them and make the shows more enjoyable, because if they're having fun, we are definitely having fun. Yeah. 

How important are appearances and stage persona? To me, it's important, because I feel, I mean, generally, I'm an introverted guy in real life. But I feel I'm an extrovert on the stage. And I feel I don't have my real life inhibitions. 

You know, when I'm on stage, I feel empowered, I feel like I can be anyone who I want to be. And then I express that through what I wear and how I do on stage. And so for me, the stage act is pretty important. 

And it comes naturally for me, because I suddenly I feel like I've given that responsibility to truly express myself without any, you know, doubt and inhibition. So and so I take it to the next level a little bit like I make sure that for every show, I dress up differently. You know, I try different things like from from dhotis to like, say, you know, all like native Indian headgear, all kinds of stuff like over the years that I've done. 

And I kind of like enact the part when I wear those things also. Okay. So I mean, the audiences are paid to see your performances. 

So I give them what it's worth. And I feel good by doing that and playing different roles in different stages. So I think it's important. 

I mean, it's not necessary that everybody should feel that way. But then for me, it's it's an opportunity for me to truly express beyond what I usually do. Okay. 

What do you expect from an organiser, concert promoter, organiser? What do you think? I mean, it depends on different in different situations. Like, for example, if the promoter were to book me directly as a band, as like my band, I would definitely expect him to like, you know, maybe number one would be follow the tech rider and things like that. Because, you know, at many situations, they might cut off things which you don't, which you need and, you know, and then you land up there and then you find out that he's not done, he's not got any of this equipment and then things then you know, everything turns sour because you know, you know that you're not getting what you need. 

And then of course, you know, promoting the gig, you know, getting the people there. I mean, of course, there is an onus for us also to bring people to the venue, but then I definitely feel that the organisers also have to play a huge role in that. And then, of course, making sure that, you know, whatever we need as a band is, you know, taking care of because and that relationship with the organiser definitely matters on how we do things. 

And all kinds of problems can come about, you know, you never know. I mean, even after the performance, maybe there are organisers who say that we didn't make enough money, so we can't pay you. I mean, there's all kinds of things that can happen. 

So, but if you have a good relationship, then maybe those things, even if things go wrong, it can be mended in a certain way in the future or, you know, things like that. So, yeah, I guess. Wonderful. 

So, the performance usually gets you on a super high, right? Yeah. So, how do you like wind down post-gig? What do you do? Post-gig, usually I try and get high if the band mates are into that stuff. And, you know, talk about, I mean, I mean, by then we'll see the videos coming up on Instagram, you know, and things like that. 

And then we usually talk about maybe certain fuck-ups that we did on stage and, you know, things like that, or certain things we saw from the audience, you know, we speak about what 

happened and things like that. And usually, the same night of the gig, that night, we are usually on the same high. So, you know, it's a great follow-up from the gig, just hanging out with your band mates and, you know, talking about things and especially when our gig goes. Great, then we talk about big future plans that the band can, when the band can conquer you know. So it's still a high, the same night is always the high and we don't really come down. So you made like a successful career as a performing musician, you have got your own Academy and all that. 

Can you give some financial advice on how a young musician who is getting into performing, how they have a relationship with, positive relationship with money because we all know how difficult it is to make ends meet. Yeah, I mean first of all I think being solely a performing musician is very hard to be nowadays and that is something that we learned especially during COVID, you know when COVID hit and you know, there was no live performances and things like that and that's when the live musicians knew that they had to pick up skills or they had to do other things to make ends meet and there's no saying that COVID will not come back. So I definitely, that's what I advise all my, the people I see, the young musicians that I see is that you know, pick up as many skills, learn as many things that you can, whether it be teaching, whether it be producing, whether it be like sessioning, you know, when we're young usually we tend to be more principled and make me say that we only do this and that. 

You know, I still remember when I was young, I said I do only rock music and you know, it's like you had a certain allegiance with the genre itself where you go to lengths by dissing everything else and but when life hits then that's when you realise that you know, there's no point in guarding any allegiance to any kind of genre and you realise that to survive you got to learn and experience many things and learn other people maybe to learn new things. So I mean yeah, that's what I would advise young people is like don't make just one path your path. You know, so there's so many facets to music, many things that and today of course everybody does that because you know, you need to be your own video director, you need to edit, you need to do all kinds of things to you know, be relevant and so I think it's a natural process now people have kind of gotten into the you know, the swing of like you know, I've got to do many things to survive. 

So I think people get the get the idea and yeah, I mean of course, I don't think as Indian people we get any great financial advice when we are young. So that is definitely missing from the schools and you know, to give us that kind of wisdom of financial wisdom of any sort. So I think that is something also that needs to be taught to young people so that you know, whether it's being a musician or not, you still know how to save or to invest on things like that and the earlier you start, the more you know, sure you are to go forward with your dreams or you know, there is at least you feel confident enough that you know, okay, I've saved this much and so this has become this much now so that you know, maybe I can take a risk here, you know, maybe even if I don't get paid for this gig is okay, you know, for the sake of exposure, maybe I might do it just because I was financially more informed here. 

So yeah, I think financial education is super important and that is the earlier you can get that, the better. Great. We've all had like personal issues, struggles, personal life struggles, you had health issues. 

Yeah. How do these affect your performing life and how have you navigated these challenges? I'm actually going through, I've been going through a huge lull right now. I mean, especially I had this heart attack like say, maybe what it's been two and a half to three years now but ever since that happened, I kind of took a backseat to music, I would say. 

Of course, my performances with Sid and all still happens but I'm not as challenged or I don't push myself enough now as before. It's because I don't know why but I feel it's because when your life is under threat, then a career and those things don't really matter and then you go on the search for what really matters and so then sometimes, yes, you might just leave the music because that's what you've been doing all these years. That's the first thing that you might cut out because that's what you know that you can cut out and not things like that but at the same time, when you do that, when you do cut off music, then you you know, start answering those existential questions about is music my only identity and people know me only because of the music. 

If the music is taken off, then I'm nothing. Am I nothing without the music? You know, those kind of questions and so I think, I mean the solution to this, I mean now that it's been three years since then, now I see gradually without me pushing myself, it's kind of coming back to me and it's coming back to me in a different way. Like for example, usually when I used to do my albums and things like that, my independent albums before, it always used to be a collaboration of like getting people together and jamming with them and then and both my previous independent album before COVID were completely live. 

So it was all about like being with people and jamming with ideas and getting this band together and that was the way but then as soon as COVID hit, when you couldn't do that anymore, that is when I kind of got into because otherwise I was doing the producing from the studio for the commercial stuff but then I didn't want to do that for the independent stuff but then COVID, I had to. Even for the independent stuff, I had to sit at home and produce and all I could do is probably, you know, do some remote recording of some singer and things like that but and then I did, I got into this whole independent production bit. I know I released a lo-fi hip- hop album and all during that time and I was doing a lot of production and kind of got into that flow but then now after so many years since COVID, now I feel I kind of saturated in that space. 

I'm not interested in producing as much as before and so now I really want to get back into, you know, just being with people and jamming and seeing because I mean that's the most beautiful part of music that just like how community is as important, is the most important thing and I think that is what you get out of that as compared to what you get out of sitting alone in a bedroom. So that's what I'm looking for now, at least to get my interest back in music also I feel that is what is needed for me and so yeah I mean, what was the question again? The 

question was, we started with the health challenges and how are you? Yeah, so yeah, I'm slowly just trying to find my way again and I know that the best way to find my way is to be with people and to be with the community of musicians and you know, it doesn't have to lead up to anything and that's the biggest problem. So I mean, being, having this such a long career for so, I mean, you know, the problem with us is like we have an idea and we want, we're so used to like thinking of a hundred things how to make this idea, it's not just about making the music anymore, right? It's about, okay, what's the marketing plan? Okay, who do I have to give? How do I get it into the playlist? How do I make a video? You know, it's like all the other things which actually, which seem to be more important. 

Yeah and then eventually that like, it puts you down in like, you know, making the music eventually, you know, like so and I'm so used to that when I think that oh there's gonna be a roadblock here, then I stop, you know what, f**k this, I'm not gonna make this music. I'd rather just chill, have a beer at the beach or with Nuri. You know, so I mean and that is the kind of feeling that I'm going through now also. 

So every time I, but then now what I tell myself is, you know what, I'm just gonna jam with people. I'm not gonna plan on whether I'm gonna do shows or not. I'm just gonna make it as organic as possible. 

If it happens, it happens but if it doesn't happen, I'm okay also just jamming with someone, you know. So that is my, I'm trying to like kind of focus on that and not focus on the other big things which I always used to do in my career and because which means asking favours from people and those kind of things and that is something that I really hate because after a point, how many people can you ask and you know, how many people can you bug and you know, so I'm just hoping that it'll happen organically and you know and maybe I might have to start small again for that. I shouldn't look at like I will only perform at the big stages or big venues. 

No, I should just look at like can I perform maybe in a home or maybe I should start there where you know I don't need to think of anything too much. I don't need to plan and you know I'll start small. I know okay just a group of friends. 

I'm so happy. I'm actually looking forward to do such kind of performances now because I know I have, I can put the effort in the right place which is the music and not at getting people and impressing people and you know or like you know because obviously people know me for a certain kind of music or I'm popular for certain kind of thing but I can't match that thing anymore because it's just too much effort and it's just drains the hell out of you and I don't want to be drained. It's good for you not to be drained. 

We are staring at a future which is like getting increasingly more and more digital and digitised and artificial intelligence. Do you think like human life performance still has value going forward? Will it be more important? Definitely. I mean of course there will be ups and downs. 

I mean for example even Bangalore as a city if you see ever since COVID we lost so many 

legendary venues like B-Flat, Humpty Dumpty, Counter Cultures, Take 5. So many venues just like shut down and these were like the pillars of this city. I mean the city was known for its live music culture and I mean seeing this even being in Chennai we've seen the Bangalore live music culture and now seeing that it's not there anymore I mean there's no place actually where I can actually I mean of course there are a few smaller venues now but it's not like before where I knew that on a Friday on a Saturday there will be some great gigs happening I can just go there. I can meet my community there, my people there. 

That's not just happening anymore. Okay. And which is very sad for a city like Bangalore especially. 

And so yeah I mean I just hope that we can bring this back again somehow we need to find new people to support the scene and you know put some money in it and you know bring this back because the culture is already there is that and I know it might be on a lull right now but these things always has its ups and downs so at one minute you might it might seem that nobody wants live music anymore at least local live music but I'm sure after a certain point those things will come back again and that depends definitely on the musicians and the audiences together and it also depends definitely on how strong we are as a community like the other day I was talking at this thing called the Bangalore Music Huddle. It's like a new music community that's come here and bringing all these people not just musicians but also the people working behind the scenes and stuff like that and having these discussions and you know so I mean that I think is really important for things to go forward and for keeping it alive and also for young people to take this up as a career or to you know if they feel a certain way they feel that they are meant to be a live musician or musician in fact they should be allowed to take the leap and be brave enough to go for it you know I mean that shouldn't stop I mean because if that stops then it'll be just us old farts trying to save the music and all that stuff so yeah I mean I don't think I mean I don't know how AI is going to play out when it comes to live music but of course we can have all kinds of live music through AI also I'm sure but what human will always stay human and that's the beauty of it. The beauty of community and people coming together. 

I think that is something I think only us humans can do. Brilliant. We're almost at the end. 

Just before we wrap, if you have to summarise what is the essence of performance in a single philosophy or... I think the essence of performance is true expression. I think expression is the biggest thing. You know in real life most of the times especially now that things are hard and you know when we are probably still not gotten out of the COVID fever where we like to sit at home and not venture outside. 

I think we are becoming less more and more less expressive even with our personal things you know you might not say the same things you used to say to your wife or your two friends you know yeah so we are becoming more and more less expressive and I feel music and things and the arts in general is something that is probably the only thing that are left for us to truly express ourselves and the things that we and expression should be about not about whether 

it's good or not it's just the act of expression is what is important right. So I think performance is definitely I would say one of the epitomes of expression and for me like I said I'm a completely different animal when it comes when I am on stage so which means there is something else in me which I'm not expressing in real life and which I'm expressing only on stage. Maybe that's why you got the heart attack so you should be on stage more. 

So yeah man so I feel we all have that hidden those hidden real people in us who are waiting to express in different ways which we are not getting avenues in real life probably and yeah now and now that the world is more woke and that's even more like we keep our mouth shut and you know so that we don't get into trouble and things like that and and that is definitely not helping anybody. I mean like the other day I mean I am a strong a pro-Palestine person and I feel bad I feel really like saddened that our community is not speaking up simply because they don't want any bruises in their career and you know they don't want to be seen as certain even if they might be believing and they might be pro for it they're just not saying anything and that's and that is not the purpose of being a musician I mean the purpose of being musician or an artist is to reflect the times like yes and you're the people who are supposed to put the truth out there and put it at as bare as it is and this is not happening because people are afraid to express I mean expression itself is like governments or institutions are curbing it yeah so that it favours them and we don't fall in that category we as artists shouldn't fall in that category of curbing ourselves we should be as vocal and as open as possible I mean of course people have their down times where you know you feel sometimes you feel it's too much you can't handle it but that's okay but then that doesn't mean you remain dormant yeah you know you have to still speak up you still have to and you have to express that through your music if you can express it through the music great if you don't also that's okay you don't have to necessarily express through your music and write songs like Bob Marley no not everybody can do that but at least you have to speak up I mean right you have to express yeah whether you know whether it's good whether it's bad whatever so I feel and performance is definitely like I said the height there's height in expression and so I feel that's also what people need to see so if people see that people can be different on stage and people can express it themselves in so many different ways that they also can do it in their own way in their lives so I think that is the lesson from being artists being performers and yeah I think expression is the key word brilliant Sanjeev thank you so much thank you so much fascinating been lovely thank you thank you so much thank you very much