Ep 14 Bharath Narayan - Whistle Podu

In this episode of "Stage Matters," Bharath Narayan, a talented Carnatic vocalist and whistler, delves into the world of live performance. The episode offers a behind-the-scenes look at the dedication and meticulous preparation required for a successful Carnatic music concert.

Bharath shares his journey, from being inspired by his musician parents and icons like Vidwan Abhishek Raghuram, to evolving into a seasoned performer.

The conversation explores the complex process of concert planning, emphasizing the importance of creating a balanced setlist that avoids clashing ragams and talams. Bharath candidly discusses the crucial, yet often neglected, practice of collaborating with co-artists—sending them the setlist and pitch in advance—which he views as a mark of respect and professionalism.

He also touches on the challenges faced by modern artists, including the pressures of social media, the need for constant innovation, and technical issues like inadequate soundchecks. The episode concludes with a profound discussion on the spiritual connection to music, where Bharath reveals that for him, the art form itself is the ultimate deity.

Transcript

My next guest is not only just a brilliant young Carnatic vocalist, but he's also an exceptional Carnatic whistler, believe it or not. He's none other than Bharath Narayan. Hi Bharath, welcome to Stage Matters. 

Hello. Thank you for talking to me. Thanks for inviting me. 

So why did you become a performer? I've been majorly influenced by my parents, Palakkad KL Sriram and Dr. G Baby Sriram, who are both live musicians. My father also being a recording artist who sings, plays the flute, has also helped in programming and a lot of those things. Something that inspires the most in both of them are live stage performances, both Indian Carnatic classical and fusion or semi-western or fully western music, where film songs are also involved. 

So that really inspired me to also become a live performer in the first place. Can you describe to me of initial first performance that you saw and of somebody and said, wow, this I want to do this? Oh, there are many actually, but it's very difficult for me to pinpoint because I think whatever comes to mind. For example, literally any concert of Vidwan Abhishek Raghuram, his concerts are like really, it hits you very different. 

The kind of thunderous performance that he has, every single concert of his hits you different. Ramakrishnan Moorthy. Again, I'll just stick to my side of things, which is Indian Carnatic classical. 

So Ramakrishnan Moorthy is good. Kunnakudi Balamurli Krishnan is very good. So these musicians are like the peak in terms of youngsters who are like reaching their 30s and 40s. 

So their music, like every time I listen to them, it hits very hard. And also yestergeneration musicians who are no more today, like GN Balasubramaniam, Tiger Varadachari, so many people, their music really inspires you to be, oh, wow, I want to sing. I want to perform something like this. 

I want to create this effect with my music. So that has a very, very serious implication on how you go about with this art. How was your understanding of what performances evolved from the time you started till now? So starting to perform live concerts, it's initially filled with a lot of fear, self-doubt. 

And because Carnatic music concerts usually involve a lot of preparations, because there are various nuances, let's say ragam, let's say you have a specific kind of order that you need to follow. Like you have a varnam, a composition of Lord Vinayagar, and then a third, a fast-paced composition where you are supposed to sing a bit of Manodharmam, where you can build your 

own ideas in terms of ragam and swaram. It's called as Manodharmam, where you will be given a set of rules in terms of the ragam and you perform. 

Like so many different rules are there. You are not supposed to repeat the same composer's song again. You have to involve many composers. 

And you have to create the list in such a way that ragams don't clash. There must not be very equally sounding ragams. They must be very different. 

The pace, the speed that you sing, the way that you sing must be very different, even if you're the one artist who's performing a typical two-hour concert. So initially, you don't get a two-hour concert. You start with 30 minutes, 45 minutes, where every single thing that you want to sing is completely trained from scratch from your teacher. 

Many people might even buy heart Manodharmaswarams because they are not capable enough to do Manodharmam on their own. So whatever little that they know, they give the idea to the teacher and the teacher builds it for them. They give them a chart plan. 

And then they build it up when they sing. So that's how it starts. And then as you move on further, as you keep moving on, you listen to other artists. 

Literally, sing the exact same composition that you sang, considering the first, let's say, if you're singing Mohanam Varnam. The same Ninnukkori Mohanam Varnam can be sung by great Vidwans in an amazing fashion. So you can listen to that. 

You can listen to peers of your own age, peers slightly older or younger to you in terms of music, I mean, not just age. That also you can take into consideration on how you can improve. And considering how far I've come, even if I'm just a youngster, I'm 26 now and just starting to perform for the past five, six years, I started to perform seriously. 

Considering how much of a change that has been, like that you start from getting inspired to full blown, complete full blown Manodharmam and your own planning, your own set of compositions and your own coordination with other artists and Carnatic concerts are not where you have to perform with different accompanying artists. And it is not really the same team that you perform on. It's like not like a band. 

Generally speaking, there are exceptions to the case. Of course, Sangeetha Kalanidhi, Sanjay Subramaniam sir performs with one set of artists. Not many get to do that. 

Like, for example, I perform with a multitude of artists. So I need to take, I need to understand their style of performing, their style of what kind of school of music that they follow, both in terms of melody and layam. Layam means rhythm. 

So with all those things in mind is how you evolve. That experience teaches you on how you can take forward your style of singing. For example, on one concert, let's say you take song A and 

then unfortunately you sing it in a very fast pace.
 You feel so rushed. You understood that after starting. That is an experience. 

That is how you evolve. So next time you sing this composition, you must be sure that okay, last time I screwed up. This time I'm not going to screw up. 

I'm going to start a little slow. And that also involves your rhythm section. If the Mridangam or the Ganjira artist, unfortunately has a tendency to slow down or speed up, you should have that in your ultimate control where you must have practised a lot of basics in terms of talams and, you know, swaram building so that you can keep your metronome in hand. 

In Carnatic concerts, there is no fashion of having a metronome. There are no conductors, nothing of that sort. It's still very much traditional, both fortunately and unfortunately. 

So you have to be that equipped. Your talam skills or your metronome, your inbuilt metronome must be that strong. Start to finish on one song must be as similar to where you started as possible. 

I mean, we are not computers. It can never be exact. That's also the beauty of music, right? That's how you like. 

This is just one part. There are like a million pieces, just one piece of the puzzle. You briefly touched upon preparation. 

Can you take me through your preparation process? Let's say you have a kachari tomorrow. Sure. So if I have a kachari tomorrow, I hope that kachari is a week away and not tomorrow, because it involves some level of like pre-stage coordination with your artists, where you have to prepare a list of compositions that you sing. 

And you also have to take in account the venue. For example, because Carnatic music is so intertwined with devotional and, you know, gods and all, you have to consider the venue. For example, if it's the venues placed at the temple, like if it's sponsored by a temple, it's better using compositions that, you know, hog back to that god, that deity that the temple worships, the temple is based on. 

So like that you have to have considerations in listing out. So this is a very important part of the preparation. Like I said, there are certain rules on listing out for a Carnatic concert. 

You have a varnam, you have then, this is like a, like what most people follow. This was said by Tiger Vardasarik Sir, like way back, I'm talking 68 years back. And it's still followed, where of course people have changed it, but the base architecture is still followed. 

So you have a varnam, let it be adhi talam or atta talam. Again, I don't want to go too detailed in that right now. And then you have to make sure the ragams don't again clash, the talam should not clash, you should not be repeating talam twice and thrice, where it will start 

becoming boring for the mridangist to play. 

And you must have different tempos. So it will again be very interesting for both the mridangist and the violinist to perform with you. That contrast is very important. 

So that is how you plan. And you have to inform whatever you have planned to both your artists. It's very important. 

You should not just get up on stage and expect these people to know what are you going to do. And you should also understand the fact that if we perform 10 concerts a year, those guys perform like 50-60 concerts a year. So musically, they are so far ahead. 

Even if you don't inform them, they have the prowess to completely dig a grave for you. Pardon me for interrupting, but I thought that was very common and canonic. Sadly, it is very common. 

Sadly, it is very common. That indiscipline is unfortunately very common. And I wouldn't blame that on the performers, I would blame that on the teachers. 

Many teachers are not necessary to be performers. So sometimes they lack the experience or the understanding to do this. To me, it feels very basic. 

I mean, they are musicians with you. You have to give them the respect to send them the list. At least also some people even forget to inform what pitch they are singing in. 

They assume that they'll go to YouTube and say that's not their job. You're not paying them for it. You're paying them for their performance. 

So we as vocalists, it is generally believed that we are the leaders of the concert. We do everything. So we should also take up that responsibility to make sure that our co-artists are extremely comfortable with us. 

See, sometimes even if all of our efforts are run, it will not happen. Like people say, we are the villain in somebody's story, no matter how good we are. But still, we have to try. 

I mean, it makes me sleep better at night. I know that, okay, I did this job. Even if the concert flunked, I did my job. 

Maybe there are things that I could learn. Or if the concert was successful, again, I could sleep better. So that is very important. 

That preparation should involve your co-artists. Some people, what they do is, if it's a very important concert in their career, for example, it is to an upgradation for All India Radio or something like that. Or let's say Music Academy, which of course, controversially, some people put it above than any other Sabha or any other concert venue. 

That's for a different debate altogether. But anyways, for that people, you know, invite the co- 

artists home and they sit and prepare. This is actually very common in the dance field, where dancers are supposed to practise a lot of times. 

So what they do is they invite musicians home to perform those jathis and the compositions. You know, the repetitions are insane. They have to repeat one line for 11 times, 12 times. 

So they can emote different variations on Bharatanatyam or Kuchipudiru, whatever it is. In Carnatic music also, this preparation, of course, nowhere near as what dancers do. It is still present. 

And I believe, at least for very important large 2, 3 or 4 hour concerts, I think it's very important to have at least one session of practise where your artists are involved. And you can, of course, prepare the list of compositions. Of course, also, there are, in terms of Manodharmam, there are like, you can sing ragams. 

The way you sing ragams might be new for other people. Let's say, Poorvikallani or Pantuvarali. Some people will sing without the panchamam, panchamavarjam or shajjavarjam. 

They can sing this in Pantuvarali also. Like panchamavarjam, this thing is very difficult for the violinist to play. So, some sort of preparation between each other and also that give and take should be there, where they can also recommend, you know, you change this or why don't you sing it this way. 

I think they should also have a say on the list of compositions that you make. So, they will feel included and comfortable. Otherwise, I just sincerely feel that it is just disrespectful for them. 

Not involving them in the listing and not preparing with them and not informing them what you're going to do. And of course, you know, on stage changing the list. All these things unfortunately happen. 

So, these things we have to fix and there are a lot of mathematical complexions when it comes to Carnatic music. There is something called as a korvai. There are things called korappu. 

All these things involve a lot of mathematics and not like actually rhythmic mathematics is easy. Melodical mathematics is actually tough because you have a lot of melodical rules. In fact, you can't sing in Poorvikallani. 

So, when you make a mathematical structure, you have to make it in such a way that it moulds into the ragam without sounding too mechanical and it must sound melodical. That is very important. So, that kind of level of planning again should always involve your co-artists. 

So, this is how much you have to plan. And it also your compositions, that per compositions inbuilt in intrinsic tempo is there. Within that tempo is how you have to sing your manodharma. 

You can't sing a big manodharma for a small composition. It will be very, you know, it won't suit properly. It will be very inconsistent. 

So, like so many things you have to keep in mind. Again, it's one piece of a puzzle which has a million pieces, but this is how short I can give it to them. It's very interesting because I was always under the impression that in Carnatic music, you just show up at a concert and that is there. 

That is there. So, let's say if people who turn 35-40, they have like 10-15 years of performing with their co-artists. So, at that stage, the co-artists are not necessarily dependent on the artist. 

They're like, okay, I know what he's going to do. I've seen him for the past 10-15 years. Even if he does something new, I know his style of doing it and I can manage. 

And that disadvantage becomes something very, that becomes into a very positive level of curiosity, where they are all anticipating what each other will do. So, that is very beautiful in the sense, it takes 10-15 years of hard work and experience at different stages, different levels, even simply different environments. Like in a cool environment, it's actually more difficult to sing. 

For some people who are asthmatic or have any lung trouble, if there are a lot of dust or a lot of clouds, it's difficult for them to sing. So, like so many things, the instrument also gets affected. Like temperature, right? We know that heat expands and cool shrinks. 

Of course, you're happy with it. So, it matters on membrane-based instruments like Ganjira and Pradangam. These are very, very detailed instruments, very, very complex instruments, where from outside, if you see, just left and right, you know, we can play. 

It's not that simple. It's very difficult. And I have nothing but utmost respect for people who go into detail and who learn even, and you know, performers learn about making, the art of making the instrument, which, you know, helps them become a better performer also. 

So, so many things are present. After that is only you have that spontaneity when you perform. Even then, it's better to at least inform them, let's say, a brief, a rough idea of what you're going to do. 

Let's say, if you take Ragam, Thanam, Pallavi, it is nothing but mathematical complexions. So, some idea given is better for the artist. Some senior Vidhwans, when they see somebody very exceptional at their age, let's say people like Ramana Balasundaran, or violinist like V.S. Gokul, these guys, I look up to them. 

That's how, that's their level of performing, you know, that spontaneity that they have. So, people like Abhishek Raghuram, who is considered a living legend these days, when he performs with V.S. Gokul, I don't think most things are, you know, this is what I'm going to do. I don't think that's said. 

It's expected for V.S. Gokul to perform. So, that's the level of, you know, musical prowess that these people have. So, that is also there, where it is an honour for youngsters like V.S. Gokul to 

perform for such big Vidhwans. 

So, they don't expect. Sometimes, they might even have fear to ask. Anna, what are you going to do today? Sometimes, they'll have a lot of fear to ask that. 

Even if people of this generation are much more welcoming, compared to, like, previous two or three generations back. That level of distance is not there. They are much more open. 

They want Carnatic music to flourish. And they are most, you know, very welcoming to other younger artists also. So, of course, that respect also is filled with a little fear. 

So, they don't ask. So, their spontaneity is definitely appreciated. But, it shouldn't be the case all the time. 

That's just my opinion. Brilliant. Do you guys, like, soundcheck properly? We are supposed to do it. 

That's a good question. So, I'll tell you something about December season. The problem with December season is that concerts happen, like, one after the other, after the other, like, at a million venues. 

So, we don't really get adequate time for soundcheck. And I'll also tell something, a problem with musicians. Their planning is off. 

A lot of people, you know, if they are given one and a half hours slots, they'll perform for one hour, 40 minutes, 45 minutes. That is disrespectful to the venue, to the organiser, to the listeners, and the next set of musicians who are going to come there. Because you'll not have time to, to, you know, at least check your instrument's pitch. 

That's the most basic thing that you can do. I've literally seen this happen. And I also do not like this one bit where the musicians, the vocalists especially, when they perform, they'll be like, Tanya Varathanam, can you please only perform for two? Who the hell are you to do that? You've been performing for like an hour, hour and fifty. 

It is their time to shine. You can't, you shouldn't be the one to say, can you please reduce? I screwed up. If you screw up, don't sing one composition. 

Skip one composition. You've been singing for so long, right? Yeah. So these level of things are a big unfortunate problems. 

So soundcheck, unfortunately, does not happen perfectly. Even if it does happen, the, the guy who's responsible for our audio, he might keep changing this and that, you know, without our consent. And sometimes the unfortunate truth is that sometimes they just leave. 

They're bored. Some, most people, they are not interested in Carnatic music, you know, those kind of sound engineers. So if they want to watch some Instagram reels or TikTok or whatever, 

they just leave. 

So if we want some, like after the first composition is when we really know how it sounds, even after the soundcheck, after the first composition is how we actually know, okay, maybe the Mridangam left can be a little more so that I can enjoy it. Because see, we are also, we are supposed to be enjoyers. But the biggest craving for me as a musician is that I want to be Rezika also. 

Not just, not just me, but also my, my fellow artists. I want to enjoy what they're I don't want this to be a hyper-competitive, you know, high this all UPSCX. I don't want this to be like that. 

So unfortunately the sound engineer will just, sometimes they just vanish or sometimes he'll not have the knowledge to do certain things. So we do not even want to go there when it comes to, you know, high mids or low mids. We just gain, that's it. 

You just give us gain, either monitor or you know, house. Some, some sabas will not have proper monitors or most sabas, unfortunately, you know, lack a proper kind of sound design when it comes to how you hear. Unfortunately, it's, it's sad because you know, all, all they care about is profit and money. 

So you have to be in such a stature, you know, such a big level of musician to kind of bring a change into how it sounds and see, they actually do it. When they ask the sound people to do it, they're there with fear. They stand and they do it, but they'll not do the same for younger musicians. 

So unfortunately that is there. I hope it changes, you know, and for, and it also comes to us, regardless of the sound, we are, we are expected to perform exceptionally well in every single of our concerts, which generally is not the case. We are not machines. 

Some days will not be our best. You know, we have to, we have to be good actors also as, as artists, as singers, as we have to be good, good actors also. Our instrument, even if it's a vocal, vocal, our instruments might not be at the best and on a certain, it might even be at the worst, but it's a commitment. 

We have taken it up. We have practised. We have, we have, we were prepared and we have, we're supposed to do it. 

Yeah. So that's how it is. So when the sound also is not, you know, you know, listening to us, then it's, it becomes very difficult. 

Yeah, that is there. You have all skill and technique and all that, but do you also feel something beyond like something more profound spiritually when maybe while performing? It depends. For example, people who have a very sincere belief in whatever God that they, or whatever deity that they pray to, let's say if it's Lord Murugan, some slokas, when they sing, they might them, they themselves might become very emotional and that level of connection will be there. 

Unfortunately, I do not have such experience because personally, I do believe God is there, but I generally don't believe the human interpretations of God because I think we are microscopic in this cosmos. We don't even have the level to even comprehend what actual God looks like, but I still respect whatever is there and I do not want to, you know, belittle on others' beliefs. And of course I'm a performing art, I'm a practising artist. 

So I have to have a certain belief on that, on that God and whatever lyrics has been given. So just even if you don't have that connection with God, just understanding the lyrics and emoting that lyrics is very important. That is how you can emote properly. 

That is how you can bring life to your art. So because all of these compositions have a meaning to them, even if it's in Telugu, Kannada, Tamil, Sanskrit or whatever language, Malayalam or whatever it is, even if it can even be in Manipravalam where multiple languages are involved in a single composition, instead of singing, just learning and singing, you should also spend some time learning the lyrics, like try to understand just the basics of the lyrics of what you know. It might feel daunting because of the number of compositions that you have learnt, but still just understanding at least what you're singing on that stage. 

For example, if I'm singing a composition called Teliyeleru Rama. It's in Ragam Dhenuka. It means Thyagaraja Swami is saying, asking to Rama, I don't know how, what is the way for bhakti. 

What is the way to bhakti? In fact, it's so beautiful. After finishing the pallavi, he again repeats the pallavi. Then only he goes to the na pallavi. 

So here you should not be all and sing. You have to emote in a certain way. You can't do manodharmam here. 

I wouldn't do manodharmam. See, if you want to do, you can do. I'm not going to stop. 

I wouldn't do manodharmam here. I would simply sing the composition and emote in such a way. I'll not really enjoy all those things. 

I'll simply be in a kind of state of stance. Yeah, trance. That's the right word. So that is how you do. Of course, this is all acting. This is all just on the stage. 

That's what you're doing. Some people really get into it. Some people, even if there is no composition, just by singing the ragam can be devotees of music. 

My father is a very inspiring example for that. He's a devotee of music. My dad is a staunch atheist. 

He doesn't believe in God at all. But he believes in his music as God. It's like every day I practise, I wake up, I'm able to sing a certain way or play a certain way. 

It's because that musical goddess, God or goddess, whoever it is, is showering me their blessings, enabling me to do this. So my penance or my offering to this is practising. That is what he believes. 

Some people have a certain deity where this is what they think. Okay, Sangeetam means Saraswati or Mahalakshmi. So this is what we only have to pray to them. 

Of course, Lord Shiva, Muruga, all of them are invited, welcome. Nobody is not welcome. But that one God, Lord Muruga means that's the ultimate power. 

That is how they believe. So that level of trance is achieved with various means. I've seen many Mridangam Vidwans admire other yestergeneration Vidwans as gods. 

They'll be like, if I'm playing this, this is a composition of T.K. Moorthy sir, Sangeetha Kalanidhi. He's like, Moorthy sir is the God of this. So if I'm playing this, I need his blessings. 

I want to play this in such a way. This is a Karigudi Mani sir composition. That is the God of Mridangam. 

I want to play it in such a way. That is the God. I have to play like this. 

For example, Pazhani Subramaniam Pillai is like, a lot of these compositions are present. So when you're playing that, they'll consider that as a God. I've seen that instrumentalists consider other major instrumentalists. 

That's a huge inspiration, like a God level. Singers do that too. Like for me, GN Bala Subramaniam sir is ultimate. 

So I do that too. I look up to such people. I'm like, okay, this is the level of that. 

The way we make our listeners feel at heart, this is what I want to do. So this guy is my God. He did it. 

I want to do that too. It shouldn't be imitation. It should be an inspiration where you also have to mould your style in such a way, where you take from other musicians and do it. 

You briefly touched upon improvisation. Can you talk more about it? I know Carnatic music is a highly improvised form of music. Yes. 

Is there a balance like between the rehearsals and the improvisation? Do you have? Hey, it's very subjective. It's very subjective and it's not static at all. It's so variable. 

You can't even predict. There are a lot of factors, like your mental health must be set on that day of the concert, no matter how well you prepare. Your vocal health must be well. 

Your audio must be good. And your co-artists must be also in the same, where the instruments also listen to what they want. They listen to them. 

That level of unity is important and it's super difficult to get at such a young age like mine. Some people attain it at a very young age. Ramakrishnan Murthy and I attained it at a very young age. 

Some people attain it at a very old age. They struggle. They struggle and struggle. 

You mean to freely improvise? Yes, to freely improvise. Because all of these things are essential for you to be comfortable enough to think outside what you want to do. Here I'll sing a little bit of Manodharamam on the top. 

Here I'll sing in the bottom. Or here I'll do some korappu. You can have this rough idea. 

But actual improvisations happen on how you feel on the stage. You have to be comfortable. You have to also be forgiving enough to understand you're not a perfect musician. 

Nobody is a perfect musician. Beyond a point there is no such thing as perfection. That variability, that possibility of newer things, newer complexions, newer ideas is what makes Carnatic music so beautiful and so universal. 

You can even say a lot of other forms of music can take Carnatic music as inspiration. That is how open and universal it is, theoretically. So that level of freedom you can never predict on rehearsal. 

You can only give a brief idea. If you're performing a three-hour concert, you can have a plan like this. Sometimes you might feel, okay, I only planned for like five minutes of ragam. 

But I feel so much in the mood to sing more in this. So why don't I sing more? You might just complete. You won't even think about this. 

You'll just miss even this. You'll start singing. I just watch the time. 

Oh shit, seven minutes gone. So you'll be like, that tension will start happening. So you must not be that rigid also. 

You can plan, but rigidity ultimately can also be a, beyond a point, can be an enemy for progress in Carnatic music. That rigidity should not be there. What role does the audience play for you? Role of the audience. 

See, Carnatic concerts these days have become more of a marketing tool than something of like proper one-sided income, right? So what we expect our audience to do, our expectation is one, to forget the enjoyment part. What we expect our audience to do is help us build brand, help our name reach others. So again, it's our responsibility to make sure that our music hits them so hard. 

We're like, oh, I listened to this concert. You know, this guy, this girl sang, it was amazing. Next time we'll go together, we'll listen to them. 

That level of hit to the heart is important. That is honest, but we expect our audience to do that. We expect the word of mouth to spread. 

We expect repeat audience. We expect the audience to come again so that, you know, they can see different flavours of what we sing. So again, that's honest. 

We can't repeat the same list or the same thing again. So this social media is a big problem for us because if one list is there, it will be on YouTube. We can't repeat it anywhere. 

Hey, he sang it two months back. He's cheating us. So we have to be innovating all the time. Yesterday's generation musicians didn't have that problem. It's literally believed, where in one street, one concert happened, the exact same list can be performed like two streets away. Audience will be entirely different. 

Entirely different. They won't have a clue. This is like 50-60 years back where film music didn't have such a big, you know, media didn't have such a big thing. 

So Carnatic music was very much the only kind of, only source of entertainment for arts, for people. Where it moved from kings and, you know, last set of monarch kings and it moved to, like, common audience. Therukoothu happened, dance, street theatres happened, then Carnatic music was also going on. 

So these things are very important. The audience have shifted unfortunately due to social media and coming. The level of attention span has reduced, both for the artists and the listeners, audience. 

That's not just in Carnatic music. Yes, and Carnatic music intrinsically is very detailed and, you know, you need, you're expected to know a certain level in Carnatic music to understand what you're singing. Without knowing anything. 

Some people can come and enjoy. Some people really would have no idea. Like, what is this guy doing? I don't know. 

They'll never say, I don't know anything. What is this boring stuff? You know, I would just listen to computer music. So, most people are not like, okay, maybe I need to learn more. 

No chance. Like, what is this? All old people stuff. That's what happens. 

Yeah. So, because social media is so easy, people don't really need to be educated to know what it is or enjoy what it is. Some cat going, some dog bouncing, people can enjoy. 

Carnatic music is not like that. It involves a certain level of knowledge to understand what it is. So, that is a big challenge. 

So, we expect our audience to have a bit more attention span, a bit more curiosity. Again, a big problem because Carnatic music audience are all old people. They're old people. 

Their curiosity ended decades ago. They're like, if they like Sanjay Subramaniam sir or Ranjani Gayatri madam, they listen to them only. They're like, okay, youngsters perform. 

But this is like an amazing, Bommi Desi madam, amazing concert. TM Krishna sir, Sangeetha Kalanidhi, amazing. That is what they listen. 

So, we can't expect them to also come for all the concerts. When they're old, they need people to come. Sometimes they need people to come and drop them. 

They might be in crutches and all those things. Sometimes they'll have their phones on high volume. They'll not even know how to put it inside. 

Is that a big problem? That is a huge problem. Not just old people, youngsters also. Little kids also coming there, they'll be playing in the phone. 

Sometimes the volume will go up, unfortunately. That's sadly a problem. So, getting back to these things, these are the kind of roles that we expect. 

Most importantly is the word of mouth. Where they tell that so and so, this is a performer. And a big level of that word of mouth is that if they have youngsters or people who are willing to learn from us. 

Because most musicians, that is a very stable and dependable level of income. Where Carnatic concerts used to be a very strong level of income many years back. Nowadays it's not the same. 

Because the supply is here, demand is here. Demand is low, supply is high. So, because of that it's highly competitive. 

So, your style of music must be so good that people are inspired to come. Or at least let the next generation of their own family. Please go and you can learn this, it's very interesting. 

So, like that when people come, it's like a regular monthly genuine based income. That is very enticing for musicians also. Again, we are all students of music. 

We can only say we are teacher for this person. But we are all students of music. When we teach, we learn also. 

When we teach, when we practise with them, we learn also. We refine ourselves. We polish ourselves. 

Like a cherry on the cake thing. So, that is also very important. So, the audience. 

So, that's now kacharis have become like a primarily become like a source of marketing. Where we are showcasing, okay, I am present. I am a musician. 

These are my skills. This is what I am performing. These are my SWOT. 

Like, you know, strength, weakness, opportunity, threat, whatever it is. These things are present. That is how we are advertising. 

That's the role of concerts nowadays. Okay. So, if somebody comes to learn from me.
 I simply, you can search, you know, I'll share links of my recent concerts. This is how I sing. So, 

do you want to learn from a teacher or do you want to learn from a performer? It's like, you know, this motorsports analogy. 

If you want to get a bike or a car or something. If you have the same team to cheer in a race day. Like, win on Sundays and sell on Mondays. 

Same thing. So, you learn from a performer. You actually learn to perform music. Right. You learn from a teacher. You learn music. 

Yeah. You want to learn music or perform? What do you want to do? That's simply my question. Yeah. 

So, that is how, you know, as a performer, that's your USP. With terms to students and, of course, audience also. You know how to capture the minds, how to capture the emotions of audience. 

That is very important. For anybody to learn music, that's very important. So, that is how audience play a very important role. 

They can be your cheerleaders. Yeah. In a concert, they can be your students. Yeah. They can be your well-wishers. They can even be your critics.
 Yeah. It's fine. No necessity for everybody to like.
 You don't like everybody. Yeah. Right? Yeah. 

Absolutely. You can't expect everybody to like. So, talking. 

How seriously do you take feedback, both from audience and from critics? From audience and critics. So, I always consider it with an open kind of thing. Because when we start questioning them about their right to question us, we'll never learn. 

Sometimes they might give some comedy in terms of, you know. They'll say some senseless comedy. It's fine. 

Yeah. That is their understanding. Again, I would take responsibility to make sure that they learn. 

Okay, maybe something I said was wrong. Maybe this is the right thing. It's, again, my responsibility to do that as a musician. 

If an audience has a half-baked knowledge or an over-baked knowledge, like fully roasted, like deep-roasted knowledge, there's no point. But then again, you must be open to take criticism so that you can always grow. Again, audience ultimately are the king of your career. 

The more audience that you bring, it is more enticing for an organiser to call you for a concert instead of others. If you're bringing 100 people and some other guy, even if he's a better performer, if he only brings 10 people, you will only be favoured. Those 100 people can become 100 ticketed people. 

That is income for the organiser. So, both fortunately and unfortunately, Carnatic music can be shaped by people with half-knowledge. That is the problem here. 

Fortunately and unfortunately, Carnatic music or the evolution or the movement of Carnatic music can be shaped by people with little or half-knowledge. They're like, okay, I enjoy this more. They don't know if it's substandard or amazing. 

They're like, I enjoy this. So, they demand this only. So, what happens is that this thing, unfortunately, starts narrowing down. 

There are many compositions in Aberi, but people demand Nagamomo only. There are many compositions in, say, Kalyani, but people only demand, say, Kunne Allal Veyre. Many compositions are there, but this is only one or two compositions, what they demand. 

They enjoy this. They demand Bho Shambho. Many compositions in Revathi, they only demand Bho Shambho. 

So, if you sing Bho Shambho, you're known outside. If you sing something in Revathi, he sung something, I don't know. This is what they do. 

Because old people, you can't expect them to go to Google and think or ask other people, hey, what composition is this? See, if you look at the live, this YouTube live, another comedy only, on the comment section, people will not be discussing about the concert or anything. Like, ban this crap, man. Let people listen. 

If I'm singing a ragam, they'll be like, what composition? I'll be singing something else. Why don't you guys just sit and listen? Take hands off your keyboard and damn mouse. Listen to it. 

Try to at least take in what I'm giving you to emote. Try to enjoy the damn thing. I am not able to do it as a vocalist. 

The biggest challenge for me is, I am not able to be a rasika at times. Sometimes I just want to sit and listen. Even in the concert, if I have an exceptional pradangist, for example, my dear friends Adarsh Devarajan and Kishore Ramesh, I look up to these people. 

Phenomenal pradangam artists. When I listen to them, sometimes I just want to get off the stage, go sit down and listen. This is literally what I want to do. 

So, I can't do it. Even when I'm performing, like singing something, one line they might play in a very exceptional way. I want to listen to somebody else or myself singing, but not sing. 

So, I don't have that advantage. So, when you guys do that, when you guys have that advantage, damn listen to the damn thing. Why are you typing good morning, good evening? On the comment section too. 

Good morning ji, good evening ji, the mic is not good, this is not good, that is not good. Unfortunately, the time we live in. Yes, that is unfortunate. 

Again, I would rather advise organisers to just mute this comment section nonsense and let people not be able to interact with us. What is, you just talked about organisers, I want to ask you, what is the role, what do you expect out of an organiser? An organiser, I would say is purely business minded. Most organisers are not very knowledgeable in Carnatic music. 

They are purely business minded. They look at brands, rightfully so. They take risks, they take sponsors, they take risks, so they need a return on investment. 

Sometimes they don't own the hall. They rent the hall to do it. So, it's a lot of risk involved. 

So, most organisers are not musically inclined. So, you can be an amazing high quality performer. You can bring a lot of innovations to, like enjoyable innovations, even if it's not mathematical or, you know, even if it's like purely melodical and a lot of fun. 

You can bring it in, but if the people are not open to it, then there's no chance. So, I can't expect an organiser to be, you know, you have to learn Carnatic music and you have to understand what, you can't do that. It's unrealistic. 

So, you have to sing a certain way. You have to perform in a certain way. Sing certain compositions that attract people, even if you don't like them. 

See, honestly, I don't like Boshambo at all. I genuinely don't like that compo, but so many people do. So, as a performer, if I want to gain traction, I have to perform it here and there. 

Right, I have to perform it here and there. So, that is what brings organisers. Organisers always look at how many people do you bring. 

They also look at what level or what time slot that you sing at different sabahs. So, even if they look at it, if you don't bring people, even if you're an exceptional, they'll put you in a slot like 12 to 1, where people will be nicely eating and sleeping. They'll eat, come, sleep. 

There's no point. They'll eat and leave also. So, there's no point of it being like two people or three people sitting in the hall. 

So, whatever you do, it will be depressing. Very depressing. Where you're like, what is the point of all this? I'm working so hard. 

I'm bringing a lot of innovation. But the same guy singing bhoshan about 10 times, he's getting audience. So, this frustration will unfortunately build. 

So, we must find a balance where today, the most powerful tool for marketing is social media. Beyond concerts. Concerts, some 10 people, 100 people will be there. 

Social media is for the world. If you go to my Instagram and watch, I have been performing, I have been creating reels. I have made a special way where I sing, I play the mridangam, I play the flute all on one frame without the use of any green screen. 

So, like unique things. Not just me. People have done much more than me also. 

So, these things is how you bring, oh, this guy did this. Oh, nobody else have done this. Oh, this guy did this. 

Or even a common composition, if you're able to present it in a very beautiful, unique way. That captures audience. See, my maximum is say 2000 or 3000. 

There are people with millions and millions of views. Even if they sing a very normal, even if they play a very normal, okayish way, even if it's in a bad way, people get views. So, that is always, that lucky draw is always present. 

So, you need to keep working on it. See, personally, I felt burnt out. It's been a long time since I uploaded a reel or something. 

I felt burnt out. Like, you know, okay, I'm doing this. People know me. 

I'm working. I have concerts. I'm happy with it. 

But at the same time, what do I do new? So, even if I have like 10, 12 reels ready with me, I'm not satisfied with it. I'm like, I can do better. So, I always have this self-judgement on what I can do to, you know, make organisers, it all hawks back to them. 

When people start talking about it, organisers also start talking about it. Hey, this new guy is coming up. He's from this and there. 

He learned from so and so and he's coming up. You know, let us put him for a concert or something. And again, you have to have stage manners, etiquettes, the way you talk to organisers. 

You have to apply. Like now, it's what, June now? People now, now is a good time for you to go and apply at different sabahs, different organisers. You have to introduce, give your CV. 

People still rely on CDs and all. You have to burn CDs and give it to them. People still live in the 1960s and 70s. 

You can't do anything in there. You have to have a concert of your recorded and all those things. And you have to show that you've performed here and there. 

This is constant. Like, if you're not able to bring people, as many people as you want. This is 

constant. 

You have to keep doing it all the time. So, that's where people start to think, okay, maybe I'm not able to lay on this full-time. Let me go for a job and also do this. 

Nothing, nothing wrong in doing that. But I always prefer a full-time musician when it comes to opportunities. A full-time musician deserves it more than someone who has a backup job. 

Anyways, people are teaching. People, lot of young kids are interested. Lot of, you know, parents, young kids also are interested in learning Carnatic music. 

So, I genuinely don't believe in this death of Carnatic, nothing like that. People loved it 8 years back. People love it today. 

Some people are going to love it. Maybe the quantity decreases, considering the, you know, if the reach is not as good. Or if it's getting streamlined to like 5 or 10 artists, even if there are so many. 

The reach is not that great. But because of social media, many people are watching, many people are inspired to learn and all those things. So, that brings in regular income. 

So, a lot of people are like, okay, I'm happy with performing 5 to 10 concerts a year. Maybe 1 or 2 concerts a month. I'm happy with that. 

Let me consider, continue my work and do all those things. My thing is, you still have to innovate. You still have to practise and keep innovating. 

You can't sit at, it's not fair for you to, you know, sit at the same place and not explore your talent. Forget your contribution to music. What is, what's the contribution that you do to yourself also? You can't, you know, pass off 40 years and look back and say, I didn't do anything. 

I learned 5 unarms, I know 5 unarms today. You can't do that. The kind of, what do you say, the kind of kickback it has is insane. 

You'll regret it. So, you have to keep innovating so that someday you don't wake up with the 40 years have passed, I didn't do anything. You shouldn't have that. 

You must try. You fail or that's immaterial. You must try so that you can sleep well at night. 

That's very important. How difficult is it to make, we are talking about money, so I'm just, to make a living as a Carnatic performer? Performer, very difficult. As a performer, very difficult. 

Because at some point of time, good taste in Carnatic music can also be a curse. This is like, sometimes you're like... Now you're sounding like your dad. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

See, again, same blood only. Great taste in Carnatic music can sometimes be a curse. Where 

you're like, how do people even enjoy this? You can feel, this artist, I'm never going to bring names here because, you know, due respect to everybody's tastes. 

You can say, this guy shouts. He shouts his brain out. He's shouting on the top. He has no range. He has no speed. A lot of technical errors are present. 

He's bringing in swarams that are not present in the raga when he's singing something. How do people like? People just like it. Why are you asking? Liking is subjective. 

People just like it. So, some people, because of that, even if they are not perfect, the way they make people feel brings audience. Unfortunately, it doesn't matter how technically sound your music is. 

In Western, it's different. If it's not technically, it will sound like shit. The people will know. 

Carnatic music, unfortunately, I don't think it's the case. Please correct me if I'm wrong. No, I think there's enough on both sides. 

So, as a performer, you need to be at such a stage. For example, Sanjay Subramaniam does a very interesting thing. He does something called Sanjay Sabha. 

He's like, I will perform when I want to. And I know I have so many people who will happily come and listen to me. Who will pay whatever fees I want. 

So, I will set a date. I'll perform on this day. Let people come and pay me. 

People like that can survive. Can flourish. Not just survive. 

Flourish. But he's at the top. That level. 

What about a person who is not at that level? Exactly. That took him 30 years. That took him 40 years of hard work. 

And it took him so much hard work. He was a violinist first. He lost his playing in an accident. 

That's how he transitioned into vocal. And that's his level of hard work for who he is today. Likes, dislikes, not important here. 

You have to give respect to what he is. For youngsters like us, it's very difficult. Nowadays, what's happening is that Dance is coming in. 

Vocalists are also performing for dance. Dance industry is even more depressing. Is that why? I thought they always have work. 

Most dancers are very rich. But they have a certain level of financial backing for them to continue. I'm talking filthy rich where they can afford to just throw money. 

They are like, I don't feel a thing. They can throw money. But that is not the case with everybody. 

At least for Carnatic concerts, all you need to pay is your vocalist, violinist, ganjira artist, gadam or your tambura. That is it. Of course, the sabha, the venue and all those things, I understand. 

For dancers, no. You have to pay for the dancer. The dancer has to pay for the costumes, the chelangai, all those things. 

Each and every artist, the stage lights, the photographer, the videographer, the dancers get nothing. They have to spend to perform. Only the topmost level of dancers get anything from tickets to pay all these people and also have a level of money. 

But because they pay musicians even for rehearsals, very rich, they pay for rehearsals and for the show. A lot of musicians also go there for income. That's what I was asking you. 

If you are a musician for a dancer, is it a better stream of income? Yes. It's very psychological, I tell you. Because I started learning the flute. 

Because when I thought this COVID lockdown thing happened, we didn't perform and suddenly we started performing. We didn't perform period. I had this fear. 

What will happen? People cannot come to concerts at all. All these online bedroom concerts, I don't know how serious it will be. Why don't I at least dance? I can do something. 

My father is very experienced in both Carnatic concerts and dance. He told me a very psychological thing that struck me that day. He said, Will you be happy? You have been performing on the centre of the stage with lighting and all those things. 

People look at you and come and congratulate you. Will you be happy doing that in the side of the stage where you have not even been seen? And after the concert, nobody will come and appreciate you. People will crowd the dancers. 

Dancers are beautiful also. Guys at least will crowd them. That is how things are. 

People will just crowd the dancers. There are guys who are like, She is very beautiful. I want to ask her out. 

They don't know nothing about it. Let this go. You will have zero recognition.
 But money. Are you okay with that? This is what my dad asks. That is very interesting. 

How can I work hard for rehearsal and all these things and go home, not even a single guy appreciating or congratulating me for my efforts. Can I do that? That is a big question. I can't. 

But did you try? No. I haven't. Another problem I will tell you. 

Organisers, some of them can be a little close-minded. Old people. So the thing is, when they see someone performing for dance, They are saying, It is not appropriate. 

This happens. If you are going there, you are automatically sealing your own coffin here. That problem is one of the most important reasons why I didn't go there. 

But I have performed the flute for recordings. Dance recordings I have done. It is like in a studio where we record and leave. 

The studio, whoever records it, gives us the appreciation. I am happy with it. Payment also, I leave. 

Something is better than nothing. That is there. What is unique about a live performance that can never be recreated in a recorded medium? Spontaneity. 

One answer. Spontaneity. See, for example, if you are given a song, you have recorded my whistle couple of times. 

You always tell me, you can do this, you can do that. But again, you have a say on what I can do. If I do something too much, you can stop and re-record. 

That is not possible in a stage. So your spontaneity must be in such a level where if I am performing the same thing on a whistle, a concert, like the same song on a concert, I must do it in such a way where I create it new but it must not clash with you where you think it is too much. That is something you cannot recreate in a recording space. 

People like my father have been so experienced. He can complete a song in a single take without needing or without the music director or the studio recorder to tell him to do this and that. Like, sir, there is no effect. 

Nothing like that. No such things. Maybe it is out of respect or fear for my father. 

It is still there. His musical prowess is like that way. So that is how we have to build ourselves. 

If a music director calls us for a song, we must give them the confidence that Bharath is right for this job. If you are calling me for a whistle recording, you call me because I hope that you feel I am enough for the job. I hope you feel that I am easy to work with. 

I hope you feel that I am able to understand whatever inputs that you are giving me and I hope you feel that I am able to bring your idea to a reality. That is very important. So that spontaneity involves a lot of hard work, a lot of passion. 

Rather than hard work, that passion is what should drive you to do more. That sheer curiosity and passion. What if I do this? What if I take a song and perform it slow or sing it fast or do this or do that? You should always have questions. 

Questions are what drives you forward. I am a sincere believer in that. That is how you inspire the next generation also. 

Youngsters absolutely adore my father. He is 52 now. He is going 53.
 He is working. A lot of youngsters look up to him. He is a jolly kind of guy. 

He will never... I did the Sai song. Nothing of that sort. You will never see him mention his own achievements. 

He will be so open to new ideas. Both western, younger musicians and Carnatic musicians. A lot of them come to him for inspiration. 

He will be so open. People send him their ideas. I listened to something so incredible. 

Why don't we practise this? That little child level of curiosity is very important as an artist. That liberalism to be open and to be not very critiqued. What do you say? Judgemental. 

You should not be that. You should always take it. Being judgemental is very natural for us. 

We listen to something that sounds like crap. It sounds like crap. Beyond that, what can we take from it? Why do you feel that it sounds like crap? Why does it sound like crap? You can always take that and improvise. 

You think it sounds like crap but so many people like it. So many people would like it. It is great if you can do some research on why people like that. 

What does it do to them? How can you make that music not sound like that but take the good factors from that. It sounds unique and it is your own style of music where it also attracts a similar quantity of people. Quality of people we never know. 

Quantity we can always improve. Quality of people we do not have control. Unfortunately. 

Higher the quality, unfortunately the lower the quantity. It is always like that in whatever field. Automotive, music. 

It is always there. More quantity means more money. Organisers will call you more. 

Fortunately and unfortunately your musical quality might be compromised might get better. It is always a subjective thing. This is a personal thing. 

I feel that Carnatic music has become at least to involve a lot of people to attract a lot of people has become very limited where certain things are done certain ways to attract people. That is very limited. You need to open up where other compositions other speeds, other tempos, other ideas are also welcome. 

For example, if TM Krishna sings Ragam or Nareval in Varanam people shoo it. You are not 

supposed to do that. Let him do. 

He is Sangeetha Kalanidhi now. Whatever political reasons or whatever it is he is still an amazing musician. You like him or not. 

You cannot discount his music just because you do not agree to his political views or standpoint or his inclination. Whatever leftist or whatever he is. Even if he is like that liberalism comes into his music where he is so open he changed the order of people sitting and he let the violinist improvise he let sometimes be like you say play the Tanyavarthanam first. 

These are all new ideas. If you do not like it, leave. Why are you saying this is wrong? He is doing wrong. 

That opinion you can have it for yourself. You can say I did not like it. He cannot do it. 

Actually if you do not like it leave should be a motto for the whole world. Very much. We are living we talked about social media, Instagram reels AI is coming in a big way. 

In all this circumstance what is the role of live performance going forward? I would say AI fortunately has not reached a level Right now it is also like many people think that watching a 15 second reel of somebody singing something perfectly on Instagram is what is music and what is a performance. Again I would not fault the people who think that I always fault the musician. I always fault the musician. 

For example, I will give you something that is not entirely related to this. Concerts or a live recording you know how many musicians are ready to do it for free? People are like don't pay me. I will do it. 

This is very disrespectful. Prostitutes get paid. People who do the worst like very self disrespectful jobs get paid. 

You are a musician and you don't get paid. What does to people who are supposed to pay you? Oh I can do this na. I have 5 musicians who need money. 

I have 100 musicians who will do it for no money. I will rather call them and you know exploit them. So what do these 5 people do? They are left without a livelihood. 

People with a basic maturity will be like you have to respect your own art. You have to put a price for it. That is important. 

So again this is very related to how musicians portray themselves. Kacheris happen this way. People are like I need an opportunity. 

I will buy this slot. God damn it man we need to get paid. Organisers are supposed to pay.
 You are not supposed to pay them. But it is a known secret that organisers get paid. I am not 

going to fault that. 

I am not going to fault the organiser. I will always fault the musician. What is it that you are not able to put yourself out in the world? You want to buy out others so that you can put yourself out in the world. 

How terrible must your music be to do that? That cash is a compensation for something you lack. It is to compensating to something that you lack. You are like I don't have opportunities. 

So I will just put money into it. What will the musician who is dependent on the opportunity will do? What will the musician who is dependent on the money will do? That is very important. It also translates into how you portray yourself on social media. 

15 seconds. Again I will not name musicians. 15 seconds. 

Melodyne is used. You ask the same singer to perform it without melodyne. He might be terrible at it. 

Melodyne is used. AI based correction is used. AI helps there. 

Many people are not able to recognise what is true and what is not true. I will always fault the musician for that. Why do you think I am not posting reels? Because I know I am not perfect. 

I know I can do better. I have kept it there. I have kept the idea that I can do better.
 I will not post it. I will not use tools to make it sound better. That is a disservice to myself. That is a disservice to the art. That is a disservice to other musicians.