Ep. 13 Anu Hasan - The beauty lies in the imperfections

In this episode, we sit down with actor, host, and entrepreneur Anu Hasan to discuss her multifaceted career and the often-unseen struggles of a life in the spotlight.

Anu shares her deeply personal journey with performance anxiety, a feeling she grapples with before every talk show but never with acting. She reveals her unique preparation strategies, from rehearsing public speeches while walking to creating flexible outlines for interviews that allow for spontaneous conversation.

Anu also gets candid about the darker side of the industry, addressing the intense pressure on appearance and the body-shaming she has faced throughout her career. She offers a refreshing perspective on an artist's relationship with their audience, explaining why she focuses on satisfying her directors and guests rather than the public.

Drawing from her own experience, Anu provides invaluable advice for young artists on navigating the financial instability of a creative career by having a "parallel track" for income. She emphasizes the importance of physical and mental well-being to withstand the demanding lifestyle of a performer and speaks on the privilege of being able to stand her ground in a difficult industry.

Transcript

Right. So I was, I think I was always someone who was a performer and I've been on stage a lot. 

So even in school, I used to be on stage. 

But I think it's, you know, when you're younger, you don't feel as nervous going on stage. Or maybe that's how it was for me. Because when I was in school, I don't even remember being nervous, being on stage performing, performing wasn't such a big deal. 

Oh, yeah, I'm singing today. Oh, I'm acting. I have a speech, etc. 

But I remember my very first performance was Fiddler on the Roof in Bits Pilani. And that's a musical. And while I can somewhat sing in tune, I'm not a trained singer. 

So I used to be so nervous, because when they gave me the card, I didn't know how to start the song. So someone had to say, and only then I could sing, you know, so. So there was a lot of anxiety associated with the singing aspect, the acting aspect, I wasn't nervous at all. 

But then as my journey took me through various phases, so singing was something that I was nervous of. And then I was comparing shows on stage. And I was nervous about that. 

Because, you know, you never know what you might have to change in the last minute. But then I think acting is something that I have not been nervous. Probably because I'm very comfortable, whether I'm good at it or not is a different thing. 

But I'm comfortable. So I'm not nervous about it. But then the biggest body of work that I have is chatting with people. 

I'm always nervous. Oh, always. That's surprising for me to hear. 

Yeah, before every episode. I'm always nervous. I'm nauseous. 

I'm anxious. Despite the fact that I'm very well prepared. Yeah. 

But the interesting thing is, it is always just before the show. The moment I say hi, welcome, I forgot. And then I'm like in the flow. 

So that's how it is. So how was your understanding of performance and performing evolved from the time you started from Fiddler on the Roof to now? So I think when I was really young, I didn't take myself very seriously. So I was not anxious. 

In between, I started taking myself seriously, I got anxious. Then as I grew older, regardless of whether I take myself seriously or I don't, I'm anyway getting anxious. So I've decided that this 

is just part and process of, you know, this whole curve that I have to follow. 

I'm confident, I get the research, I start writing my script, slowly, the anxiety builds, it peaks, I start talking to the guests, and the anxiety comes down. So this is a cycle that I keep following every time. So you're saying it remains constant. 

It's always the same for me. Wow. Okay. 

Can you take me through your preparation process, assuming you have some show or talk coming up tomorrow? Right. So if I'm going to be talking on stage, like for example, I spoke in IIT for the intramural lecture series, which is what set off my journey on social media. So for that, the way I prepped was, so I got my script done, I did my PPT. 

And then so I rehearse it multiple times, I time it and I rehearse it multiple times. So that's how I do and that's the way I prepare for all my talks on stage. In front of a mirror or something? No, no, not in front of a mirror. 

Do you know, I don't even look at the mirror. I don't. I just don't look at the mirror at all. But yeah, I just look at it to time myself. I stand and talk. I don't sit in a chair and rehearse. 

I stand and walk and talk. So I do that and I do it multiple times. So this is how I prepare for when I'm going to give a talk on stage. 

But when it comes to interviewing people, that's completely different. Because, as I always say, you can prepare all you want, you can decide what structure of script you want to follow. But when the guest comes there, they have an agenda as to what they want to talk and what they don't want to talk. 

And you will discover that only when you're talking to them. So you need to be nimble. But at the same time, you can't go in without a structure. 

So when I prepare for talk shows, I have a rough structure that I have, but they're all very flexible. So I can open one branch, go forward on that and then come back and then go on a different branch and come back. I'll have a basic structure. 

So the way I prepare for talk shows is I have points. And I say, these are the points that I have to cover in the conversation. And so I keep rehearsing the points. 

So you have enough room for improvisation. I have to have room for improvisation, because if I'm rigid, then that makes my guest stop from going further down a path. Because the moment they know that, oh, she doesn't want to hear that, they'll close up. 

So I'm very flexible. Do you have any like physical processes, like things you eat or things you drink before a show? I don't eat before the show, because I'll throw up. So especially if I'm going on stage and I'm comparing one of these shows, that's why I minimise them, because it's 

huge going on stage and having some 1000 people before you. 

That's not something I enjoy at all. So whenever I had to do it, I wouldn't eat. So I'd make sure that I'm not nauseous on stage and I don't embarrass myself by throwing up. 

But before I don't eat two hours, at least before any shoot. So you still have stage fright? Would that be stage fright? Because stage fright would make you freeze. I don't freeze. 

I just feel anxious. So I think it's performance anxiety rather than stage fright. Okay. 

And what do you do to? I bulldoze my way through it. That's about it. Because so I don't allow it to stop me from doing anything. 

And it never has. I mean, to be fair, it's not been so hard that I freeze. I've never frozen on stage except for that fiddler on the roof when I couldn't get the scale. 

Other than that, I don't freeze. I mean, invariably, I'll move. So how do I overcome it? I just accept that, okay, this is something that I have to go through. 

That's it is part of the process. And there is always light at the end of the tunnel, because it has never been that I was so scared that I messed up. It's always been that I was so anxious and so stressed. 

And then I pushed through it. And then I did the best that I could. So can you talk about the differences between the processes for doing a live live show, as opposed to doing like a film or TV acting? Right. 

So I can talk only from my experience. So when you do a live talk show that which is what I've done, a large body of work has been that. You are more or less, you have to remember that first thing is, you have to remember that you're not the star. 

Your guests are your stars. So you just have to forget about everything else other than making them project themselves in the best light possible. I mean, that's what my mandate to myself has always been. 

So I have to remind myself of that. Then the other way I prepare is I make sure that there's research. So even though the research team gives me the research, I do my own research as well. 

And I complement their research with my research. I double check whether their research is, you know, a superficial one, where they've just picked it up from some source, without verifying that source, because it's very embarrassing if you say this is it. And they say, No, that didn't happen. 

You know, because it has happened to me a couple of times, I didn't verify whether it was accurate, and it was the wrong thing. So I don't rely completely on the research. Then once I 

have that research, then I structure it. 

I put it together in a cohesive flow, in the sense there is a particular sequence in which you can ask things. It just flows. But when the research comes in, it's all haphazard. 

You know, they just say this is what happened, that happened, this happened, this happened, and all of that. Then I link it all together. So they are, you know, they're kind of a smooth flow of conversation. 

Then I have the outline structure. And from there, I just make sure I repeat that. But this is before. 

But once I go and sit in front of them, I'm looking at their body language, their cues, etc. And so when they are talking about something, and I realised that they want to expand on something which is going to go out, or rather, shall we say out of syllabus, so to speak, from what I had prepared, I let them veer away, I follow them. And then I'm furiously thinking about which point will connect back smoothly to what I want them to talk about. 

So it's like a lot of mental work. And I'm always on the alert for that. So during the show, I have to prep to I mean, I have to be prepared to quickly link back to what the original plan was. 

So that's for talk shows, which is live. But for acting, when it comes to I mean, I've not done a lot of movies, but whatever movies I've done, I'm someone who's very old school. So I learn my dialogues regardless of what language it is. 

So if it's in Telugu, I learn my Telugu dialogues. If it's in Tamil, I learn my dialogues, English, of course, I learn my English dialogues. And what I do is I first learn the dialogue. 

So I don't have to use my brain to remember the words. So though, so I know it by rote. Then I start looking at how would I feel if I were going to be this person. 

And then that's how I do it. So my preparation is firstly in the base on the dialogue side. Then when I go there, I talk to the director and say, Okay, is there anything else you you have in mind? And then they'll say, Oh, no, this is a back story. 

And you need to have that as your subtext or whatever. And then I'll, I'll portray it. So it's easier being an actor, because you just follow instructions. 

And then you do one take. And then you look at the director and the director says, Yeah, good. Okay, and then you're done. 

Otherwise, no one more, then you say, Okay, what do you want? So it's easier. And also, there is no pressure. For me, there's no performance anxiety there, because okay, if it's not that, do one more take. 

You know, that's it. So you have a preference between the two, which you enjoy doing, I don't 

enjoy both. I mean, tell me who enjoys being anxious, nauseous, stressed, and all of that. 

No, I mean, I don't enjoy either. But the thing is, once I am, so I think, I mean, I was I was being flippant. Yeah. 

So the thing is, I don't enjoy the run up to whatever I do. Okay. While I'm doing it, I enjoy it. 

After that, I forget. So for me, it's only what it's in the moment I enjoy it. The pre and the post I don't enjoy. 

Okay. What is the most challenging aspect of the performance, live performance process for you? And what is the aspect you particularly dislike? What is the most challenging aspect? Okay, this is a very personal thing. So invariably, when especially it's very me, because for me, whenever I am in front of the camera, I know there's a lot of focus on appearance, right? Because all my job has been most of my jobs has been before the camera. 

And I hate that aspect. Because you know me from a uni and I am not someone who places a lot of importance on the external appearance. So the fact that there is so much importance on the way you look is something that stresses me out. 

And of course, I've had to face a lot of body shaming and all of that saying that, Oh, my God, you look so old, you look so fat, you look so dark, and hair was a mess, your skin was not good. You know, it's always all those things. This is on social media? No, no, no, you'll have the makeup person themselves saying things like that. 

And you'll have co artists making comments. I don't know how it is now. Because to be honest, I haven't worked in Tamil film industry for a while now. 

It's mostly been in Telugu and Telugu. They're lovely. But in the times that I did work, I've had, you know, comments made about my body about my size about my skin tone about my hair, all of that. 

So that is one aspect that I like totally dislike. So what do I find challenging? I find what I find challenging is being able to go past that and not allow it to affect my performance. So that is what I find challenging. 

So there's also something you dislike. Obviously. Yeah, yeah. 

You mean this talking to you? No, no, no, no. The whole thing about appearances. Yeah, yeah. 

I think it's a you know, it's nice when you want to look good and you want to be the best version and all of that. But it's not nice when you're constantly picking on somebody and saying, Oh, don't turn like that. You know, when I was when I first did Indra, I was told by somebody I don't want to name who it was. 

Someone who said that, Oh, don't smile so widely doesn't look good. Can you imagine one 24 

year old girl being told don't smile? And I was like, No, that's the way I smile. And thankfully, I didn't let it affect me. 

Because now I've the feedback I get is, you know, it's so nice to see you smile. You know, it can be so off the mark, some of the remarks. So I think that's what I don't like. 

How do you deal with unexpected things that go wrong during a performance? Murphy is my best friend. So for those who don't know Murphy's law, whatever can go wrong will go wrong. Right. 

So I always believe that whatever can go wrong will go wrong. So I, before I start something, I look at all the things that can go wrong. So I have an alternative for that. 

And every alternative will have a backup. So that's the way I prepare. So in case they don't want to talk about this, then I'll talk about this. 

If they don't want to talk about this, I'll talk about that. If I say this, and then they get upset about it, this is how I'll escape. You know, so all of that will be there. 

So for me, and I can only draw from my experience being a talk show host. So this is how I prepare. But even after you prep beyond all of that things go wrong. 

At that time, I think humility is your ally. I'm so sorry, I messed up. I'm sorry, I didn't mean to do that. 

Finished. That's it. You don't try to cover up you don't try to and then you make sure that you comfort them or you apologise to them or whatever if what something has happened and it's upset them, you make sure they're okay. 

And then, you know, what is your relationship with the audience? Oh, my God, do I have a relationship with the audience? I don't think so. No, no, because so for me, mainly because I am always in the moment. So what I enjoy is the process, right? So it becomes rather irrelevant. 

If someone tells me that, you know, I didn't like it. Okay, you didn't like it. But that was my best. 

You know, there is no question that I'm giving my best every time I'm doing something. So that being the case, if my best is not good enough for you, there really isn't anything I can do. So I am not really bothered about the criticism. 

When it comes to compliments, I say, okay, thank you. But this is how I'll do whether you criticise me or compliment me. You know, this is the version that, you know, the best thing that I do. 

Because there has not been a back and forth. I'm not like a singer, right, who goes on stage, reads the room and sees what is the pulse of the audience and say, oh, let's give them what they want. For me, my audience are my guests, right? My audience is my director. 

That's all. And as long as I please them, there is nobody else who's an audience for me. The director is my audience of the movie, or the television series. 

And if the director is happy, my audience is happy, because that's my audience. And in the talk show, the guests are my audience. If they are happy, I've given them what they want. 

And I've put them shown them in the best possible light, then that's it. But beyond that, I don't look at the audience. Do you think the audience has a responsibility towards the performer or the people on stage? See, everybody has a responsibility. 

I would rather that we said a human being has a responsibility towards another human being rather than defining that you're an audience, you're a director, you're an actor, you're a singer, and therefore you have responsibility. I look at it as this is an artistic pursuit. And someone is out there as a singer or a performer on stage. 

They're doing their best, right? And okay, you've bought a ticket and you've gone and you don't like it. Okay, you don't like it. But your responsibility is to make sure that you're not unnecessarily mean to the performer, you know, which I think is really not nice. 

It's not nice. I mean, you're an artist. Some I mean, you see a singer who's gone there and performed on stage. 

Yeah, terrible. Okay, you don't like it. It's okay. 

But don't just, you know, badmouth them so much. And I think your responsibility is to be a good human being, whether you're an artist or an audience and then talking loudly on the phone. Oh, my goodness. 

Please, this whole thing of I like even when we were filming television, right? When I used to do those cookery shows and all of that, I should ask for flow silence. Because when I'm doing the menu, and I'm cooking and I'm talking to the camera, if you have someone else talking on the phone, it's like terribly distracting. Not only is it distracting, it's disrespectful. 

Yeah. Yes, someone's performing someone's you're recording or you're an in the audience. Respect it. 

Respect. Especially in theatres. I find it very, very do they switch on the phone and talk. 

It's like, we should have those, you know, those catapults with little popcorns or something and like Oh, that's terrible. That's terrible. No, no, no. 

Yeah. If you look at it that that aspect, yes, that is also being a responsible audience, a responsive audience, and a reasonable audience. These are all I think, what you need to be. 

Interesting words. That's what suddenly struck me. So I just said it. 

What about the promoter or the organiser or the person who hires you for your project? What expectations do you have of them? So when someone so again, I will talk only from my limited experience. When someone gets into a contract with me for doing a role or doing something, I make sure that whatever I read the contracts, okay, I'm one of those, I'm my father's daughter. So my father was a lawyer, I look at all contracts, I look at all and I don't let anything slide. 

So if there's some clause that says you can terminate, as in the person who's producing it can terminate it anytime they wish. But if you want to terminate, you have to give notice for six months. I say no, it has to be same. 

So I expect fairness in the contract. And I expect clarity of the terms and clauses. And I expect people to stick to their contract. 

Sometimes these three things that I expect are unrealistic, because my father used to say, the good man doesn't need a contract. And for the bad man, there's no point if there is a contract. Right. 

So that is one thing. Then a second thing that I expect from an organiser is they should be clear as to what they expect from me. And that you're contracting me to do this. 

Anything over and beyond that has to be discussed with me first. So that is what I expect. And from myself, I always hope that they made a good choice, because I know they're investing money. 

And I always try and try and help out in whatever way possible. If I feel that that is at risk. For example, I did a movie in which they were struggling to finish. 

And I really liked the team. And at the end of it, they still owed me money. And they still needed to and they were struggling to get permission. 

They didn't have money to get location permission and things. So I called the producer and said, I know you're struggling. I know you owe me money. 

Don't pay me that money. Use that for the production instead. Right. 

So that is something that I do. I've done things free for people because I think, you know, the impact that they make is good. So that is also something I do. 

And I expect that of myself when it comes to the people contract me to do a job. So that supposes the answer to what you were asking. Brilliant. 

So the life of a performer, live performer is very fraught with financial insecurity. And absolutely. Tell me about it. 

A person starting out. And yeah. Yeah. 

How did you navigate these things? So my life. What is your advice to younger people who are in it? Well, I can't advise the younger people because the world is a very different world now. But when I was doing that and I was kind of not really stable financially, my life was always on parallel tracks. 

Right. I ran companies. I ran my businesses. 

And on the side, I did all the media work. So most people don't know that. So they think that, you know, I made my money only in the media side of things. 

But that's not true. So I had parallel tracks. So I had something to keep the pot boiling. 

And this was something that I kept doing on the side. And if you ask me, which is your passion? I said, no, neither is passion. I just like living life. 

So I do both. So that's what I did. And I think at some point, you have to accept that this is a very unstable. 

The world of art is very fickle and it's very unstable. So you need to be prepared to do some things that keeps the pot boiling and some things that keeps your soul happy. You need to have both. 

If you have only one, it is impractical. Because if you just do something for the money, money, money, your artistic soul will just die. And that is so sad. 

But if you just say, oh, I am a pure artist. It's not practical. Where will you get your meal? You know, your meal for the next day is not going to come from the sky. 

Right. So you need to have that balance. And that I think is tricky.
 But that's what I did. Wonderful. I think like lots of people will take something out of this. 

I hope so. Including people like me. All you pure artists know, I'm telling you, at some point, you have to be practical and say, okay, pure artist, okay, this makes my heart happy, I will do it. 

But this is what keeps the pot boiling. Because unless you keep the pot boiling, you won't be able to do this. That which makes your heart happy. 

So all this is also very physically and mentally taxing. Yes. All the unscheduled hours travelling. 

So what do you do? Like, do you have like physical and mental regimens? Absolutely. Because what people forget, again, see, that is my main problem with this appearance thing, right? People are so focused, especially performers, focused on looking thin and slim and all of that. But the point is, you need the energy. 

It's even more for women, right? Yeah, you need that. Yeah, it's mostly for women. Who cares how the man looks? That's what I'm like, very upset about. 

You know, like, any woman goes on stage and they want to, you know, kind of break down. Oh, she's looking a little, she seems to put on weight. My question is, you know, when you're dead and gone, is someone going to say, oh, my God, she looked fantastic in a swimsuit? Are they going to remember that? No, they're going to remember, oh, my God, she sang so well. 

She was, she had such a fantastic voice. She was such a powerful performer. That's what they're going to remember. 

But having said that, I think physical fitness is so crucial for all performers, because when you're strong physically, it kind of keeps you stable in your mind. You can handle stress much better. You are more grounded. 

You are more solid. Secondly, the demands that an art, an artist's lifestyle makes on the physical body is tremendous, because you film at all funny hours, or you perform for very long hours, then by the time you finish performing, it's like really late in the night and all of that. So you need to make sure that your body is strong enough to take all these demands. 

So I from the time I was, I think from the time I was 25, I've been working out and I've never stopped. There have been gaps maybe in between, but it has always been and the energy that I have today, I think is thanks to all the years of, you know, and the time that I invested in my physical fitness, not talking about being slim and leaf and looking great in a swimsuit. I'm talking about being able to keep going and the stamina to keep going for the hours that I've had to keep going. 

So it's very important. Have you faced any particular challenges as a female artist in terms of safety? You know me in bits. You knew me in bits. 

Okay, for the audience who don't know. So in bits, let me tell you how it was in bits. Okay, when we used to have a mixed football match. 

I was laughing even before. I know you were grinning. So I'm this is for the audience. 

I'm talking to the audience, not to you. So the when we used to be in bits, there was a mixed football match. And it was a game between the girls and the guys. 

And they were explaining the rules. And the rules were, guys, you can't charge the girls. Then they looked at me and said, Anu, you can't charge the boys. 

Okay, so that's the rep I had. And also I feel, jokes apart, I feel that the vibe that you give out is always read by the person on the other side, especially women versus men. Okay, 90% of the men, when you are very clear that, hey, I'm not flirting with you, don't give me shit. 

Sorry, bad word. Okay, free for all. Okay. 

So, so, you know, I'm not flirting with you, back off. You say it in your nonverbal, they get it. I've had very few people. 

And it's got nothing to do with the fact that I'm a Hassan, right? I have faced artists in the UK. I worked by myself when nobody knew who I was. Even there, there was nobody who misbehaved with me, etc. 

So to a large extent, yes. So my personality is a huge asset. But it

What else is an asset and which is a privilege as far as I'm concerned is if someone crosses the line I can say hush you Charlie and walk out. There are some women who are not in that position and that's what is very saddening because they are in that place where they can't walk out they are stuck and that is sad. It has never happened to me and and I have to acknowledge that that is a privilege because of the character and the person that I am as well as my attitude as to what price I'm willing to pay for what if that means I have to lose that show and if the producer is flirting with me and I have to put up with it and I have to do that show I'll say I won't do that show go away that's all so that's that's my approach so I've never had any problems and I've not had to walk away from a show either because my first one which is like hey don't mess with me I'm not interested in your shenanigans is what the men's lizard brains get the lizard brain clocks it so they don't even cross the line when it comes to me you should know everybody in bits knew it yeah I think I remember you chasing some guys out it was one of my first impressions when I first you know you know what one uh Bajpai one day he was telling me that you know my first sight of you was do you know what it was in workshop I said oh what was he doing you have the hammer smithy and he was smashing it down on some iron thing I said oh that would have been very interesting he said it was very scary okay we leave out all the preparation the skill the technique and all do you think there is some kind of a spiritual aspect to being on stage and communicating or beyond communication so there's some aspect to it uh so more than spiritual I would say on an energy level there is okay because um that's what I've learned in my years as a talk show host because I'm communicating to them not just verbally I'm communicating to them non-verbally and also on an energy level right so when people are sitting with me I'm not doing it consciously but that's how I am people always tell me hey we feel so comfortable we felt happy and they don't use the word safe but that's what I'm trying to make them feel you know I know that I will never take advantage of you in a moment of vulnerability if you've said something I'll always check with you and say are you okay talking about it you know so uh I'm reassuring them constantly so on an energy level I think as someone who's interacting with other people you do you do communicate to other people on that level on a large scale audience I don't know whether you can communicate it but I have had instances where I've picked up when I was talking especially I've picked up the pulse of the audience and I know that they are with me and I flick it and flick it and flick it and then I'm I'm going with it and then I'm cracking the jokes which I know would kind of amplify that reaction so I do that so that is again on a non-verbal energy level so I don't know whether it was clear but yeah because this is the first time I'm talking about it so I I'm just saying it as my thoughts come out so yeah yeah but spiritual I don't know because when you say spiritual I think of it's just a word yeah no for me in definition spiritual is more like angels and souls and things like that so on that level I've not experienced as opposed to material and communicative yeah that's all no but on an energy okay no neither do I because on an energy level yes you 

connect with the audience you connect with the guest you kind of there is a energy level link that happens and I know when it happens you know I just click and I know okay I'm there and then the conversation is is very different you know and I also know when we are slipping out of that space and then I do everything you bring it back into that space so there is that what shall we say navigation that I do on that level so I am doing and my body language also is very important because it has to be a non-threatening um it's a I'm a very confident person but I make sure that I'm not over confident and I'm coming across like I'm superior in some way so I'm like all that so yes so there is that level but when I go to perform on stage when I'm going to if if I were a singer right I think I'll forget everything and and just be me and my voice and that's it that's how it would be so it's very different for different functions I think yeah no actually this is very eye-opening for me because so far I've only been talking to musicians and the odd dancer right right so did the dancer say something dancer was Padmini oh okay okay so so uh did she say about the spiritual thing no she also said she doesn't understand what is spiritual yeah yeah because I think on an but I think if you if you kind of revisit this conversation with her at some point and ask her on an energy level yeah how do you connect she will connect yeah you know I think all artists on an energy level there is some work that we do yeah it's something that I want to explore but I haven't yet the next question also I think I know what you're going to say but I will ask anyway okay so lots of artists and performers can't get on stage without any some kind of an external stimulant alcohol drugs okay the audience must be wondering why I'm guffawing so loudly for the purpose everyone knows that I am like so anti all of that right um so it's not a moral thing yeah okay let's get it very clear I am not morally against anything at all in fact I would say I'm amoral okay I'm not immoral I'm amoral because I don't believe there is black and white there's always black for me wait for you you know I believe that distinction is there but you know when I don't like people doing drugs and doing alcohol or smoking too much all of them have a direct impact on the health and your health is the only thing that you have right which is going to be with you all your life and and no matter how much money you make how much how much fame you garner if you have poor health because you've smoked too much weed or you've got cirrhosis of liver because you've drunk too much or you've got lung cancer because you've smoked too much what uses it so from that aspect I say that don't but I've had the other I've heard the other argument where people tell me no it relaxes me before I go on stage I can only say this I've never needed it I'm willing to battle through my nausea and anxiety and go through to the other side rather than take anything chemical that might have an impact on my health because as I said as an artist my health and my fitness is so important you know but what about your fellow performer if well my fellow performer if he's torn out of his mind and comes messes up the show he's going to get a bop on his head because you're there you have a responsibility to perform and if you have done something that has dulled your edge and therefore you're not able to give your best then you failed so I would be really upset with my fellow performer but if my fellow performer has had a drink or wants to smoke and has had a couple of joints whatever it is and it doesn't affect the performance it's none of my business I want your life you do what you want but we are here to deliver a performance and that cannot be put at risk so if you can give the best that you can doing whatever the nonsense that you're doing as your job that's your business but 

personally would I do it no oh let me clarify at this stage in life no who knows at 70 I might end up doing it yeah yeah we'll keep the door open always it's important to remain open open- minded so what do you think is a aspect of live performance that you can never get in a recorded medium oh the instant feedback always the instant feedback because you are sensing that energy right you're reading that energy from the audience like that and it just there's this communication that's happening and and there is you take that feedback and then you deliver something and then that goes up and then you deliver something more so it's like this volley that happens between the audience and the performer that is not there in the record thing but of course in a record session the advantage is that you can correct mistakes but for me when I do my talk shows it is always like a live thing because as I said my audience are my guests so it's always live for me so for me it's that volley I can clearly see oh they're opening up when I'm asking them like this oh they just shut a little bit they shrank a bit you know emotionally or inside they shrank a bit when I said that I can sense that so I take that feedback that volley so it's it's it's exhilarating when you can communicate like that so we are living in very digitised world 15 second instagram reels lots of people's idea of high art yeah yeah or performance or whatever yeah what do you think is the hope for or the future of live performance in this environment AI and all coming people are coming down to have the attention span of an ant okay they're just not able they're forgetting that all this constant short quick reels is dulling your brain first of all I think it's your all your what do you call it all those pathways are getting just shorter and and some of them are getting blocked I think that's one thing it's not good for the person who's consuming and the other thing is with AI coming in I am really concerned you know because no one seems to be rolling out anything with respect to AI with any sense of responsibility they seem to be only doing it like a race can I get this first can I get the video gen can I get this music thing first so everyone is looking at profit and they're but they don't understand the fallouts of all of this and I am seeing I don't know how much of it is true they are writing programmes which is supposed to self-destruct and it overrides that and then it doesn't self-destruct and then it continues and to find a way to survive and I'm saying like boss so terminator was true right next thing you know you're gonna have man versus machine and so I'm afraid from that angle from a creative angle what is a point if that whole joy of that artistic process is lost I'm a painter yeah I can get AI to paint something what's the joy in that yeah you know I'm a singer I can get AI to sing something but this human experience is being lost and I feel if some or if not many of us can just band together and make sure that we don't give in to that AI wave that is coming there will come a time when people be so tired of AI human art human performance will be at a premium and I am a I am an optimist so I hope that comes true yeah yeah I want that I want that because even now you can see you know you can see the content on social media you see the videos you know it's too perfect it's too yeah it's too clearly AI it's like the Ming vase right when when they made the Ming vases they deliberately gave an imperfection on the vase because it's the imperfection that makes it beautiful and I think human beings are that with all our imperfections with all our emotions when we perform and we create art yeah that's where the true beauty is so talking about vases I think the Japanese have this thing of if a vase breaks that they stick it together and it becomes a new yeah yeah kintsugi or kintsugi I think yes yeah and and the you they put it together and they 

fuse it with gold so those uh so the broken cup actually when it's fused together with gold actually increases in value you know so it's very much like that I think yeah so how do you define whether your show was a success or a fail so there are two metrics one metric is the way my audience walks away my guests walk away from me at the end of every show they always walk away with a lot of warmth and affection so it's a success as far as I'm concerned the second metric is whether my producer makes money right and of that I have no control over so I normally don't worry about that metric because I believe in this saying of you know so you do your duty do your best so as long as I do my best interaction with the people and they go away happy whether it's the director or whether it's the guest as an actor I've succeeded or as an as a talk show host I've succeeded okay that's that's the way I look at it whether it's monetarily successful or not it's really not in my hands you know it's there's so many other things so almost close to the end yeah to wrapping up okay if you have to distil what is the essence of performance into one idea or philosophy what would it be you first have to find out what sings to you and then when you perform that is the song that you're singing to the audience so if if acting is something that sings to your heart then the song that will make your heart happy is acting so I think you just need to find that that's the beauty of performance you know the joy of performance comes only when you've identified it oh this is what makes me happy so I think my philosophy has been that okay brilliant okay thank you Anu thank you very much very eye- opening for me because as I said you're a first of a like a talk show host yeah otherwise it's all been musicians music yeah yeah yeah well I hope I hope the audience takes away something and I hope it's interesting for everyone and thank you for having me thank you thank you very much bye bye thank you very much for listening I really hope you enjoyed the show you can also follow us on instagram and youtube at stage matters podcast 

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